Snow and ice performance

[rallydefault]

Don't overthink it and anybody who says this is a bad vehicle for snow is a bad driver.

It's not a bad vehicle for the snow, but it's also nowhere near the best I've owned. That includes a Renegade and Cherokee.

There's also a huge difference between plowing through 2 feet of fluffy, unplowed snow (which the wrangler is awesome at), and driving over an inch of icy and slick slush/snow/ice (which the wrangler is not so great at).

Just think what conditions describe your roads most of the time. If you're talking unplowed backroad, the wrangler is a beast. If you're talking highways and city streets that are mostly plowed before you drive them, a Camry with AWD is gonna do just as well as you.

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[Got2havelights]

What you guys are talking about are part time 4wd transfer cases with automatic engagement. True full time 4wd includes an actual center differential which the current Jeep and Ram systems do not have. Auto engagement IMO is over rated but I am sure there will be lots of conjecture about that comment. Put it in 4wd when it is slick, leave it there until it isn't. Patchy sections will not hurt it. I have survived over 35 winters between northern Minnesota and Colorado in all manner of 4wd vehicles like this. I will say my favorite system ever was the full time ones in the MB G-wagens. If things got really bad you could lock the center diff with a button.

How the Wrangler will perform? Like just about any solid axle 4wd with a part time 4wd system. Tires are the real key, the vehicle is plenty capable for times even when you probably shouldn't be on the road. Driver skill plays the biggest role.

I have had multiple TJ's, 1 WJ with V8 and selec trac, and now a JLUW. The OP is correct about the WJ and full time 4wd being better in the snow then part time 4wd. The WJ does have a center diff like system in the transfer case that allows all wheel to spin a different rates like an AWD system, and with no traction control or stability control, it was much better in the snow. The JLU is very capable in the snow, my prob is with the drivers aids, and the inability to completely turn them off in 4Hi. I think the tazer allows this ability, so I will look into that before winter.

 

[Vrrooom]

Snow and ice performance on road is primarily dictated by tires. Any 4wd, including all open diffs, would do great with proper tires. However an AWD vehicle with a proper stability system do better than any Wrangler.

For deep unplowed snow, true 4wd paired with proper tires is best. In the real deep stuff, rear lockers help. But LSD systems are better for it as they’ll engage and disengage as needed (turns, loss of traction, etc.)

The wranglers real strength is off-road. Then deep snow, and this is primarily because of 4x4, larger tire sizes and clearance. But any other vehicle with clearance and larger tire sizes with 4wd would likely be very similar in performance.

My WK2 Grand Cherokee with QD2 with Michelin snow tires is by far one of the best snow performing vehicles, and trumps the wrangler in all but the deepest(2’+) snow.

 

[Strommen95]

It's not a bad vehicle for the snow, but it's also nowhere near the best I've owned. That includes a Renegade and Cherokee.

There's also a huge difference between plowing through 2 feet of fluffy, unplowed snow (which the wrangler is awesome at), and driving over an inch of icy and slick slush/snow/ice (which the wrangler is not so great at).

Just think what conditions describe your roads most of the time. If you're talking unplowed backroad, the wrangler is a beast. If you're talking highways and city streets that are mostly plowed before you drive them, a Camry with AWD is gonna do just as well as you.

A Wrangler can handle literally any snow condition with ease up to the point of it being too deep. I don't grasp how that makes it anything other than great for snow. Sure, some vehicles can go slightly faster in light stuff. That's not a big deal and feels like splitting hairs.

 

[CWOFOR]

Thus far a couple of you have hinted at the real solution to the OP's question. Yes the fwd system has an impact upon the vehicles ability to navigate snow & ice, but the biggest determining factor is tires. For the road conditions the OP layed out, you would want a tire with enough spacing between tread blocks to be self cleaning and enough sipping to provide traction on the ice. (The more sipping the more edges to bite the ice.) Currently BFG AT and the GY Duratrac are the go to tire for those conditions ; the new MT Baja AT also looks promising (but I haven't had the opportunity to see it in person). As previously mentioned, tire width comes into play with snow depth; the narrower the tire the easier it will dig through the deep stuff. Another factor is the overall weight of the vehicle, a heavier vehicle will provide better snow & ice traction, up to a point; to heavy will not climb out and will have to dig it's way through. For the OP, I live in a similar winter time climate, the JL(in my case) or JLU will do just fine with the right tires and a huge helping of common sense.

 

[Ridgway Jeeper]

I have had multiple TJ's, 1 WJ with V8 and selec trac, and now a JLUW. The OP is correct about the WJ and full time 4wd being better in the snow then part time 4wd. The WJ does have a center diff like system in the transfer case that allows all wheel to spin a different rates like an AWD system, and with no traction control or stability control, it was much better in the snow. The JLU is very capable in the snow, my prob is with the drivers aids, and the inability to completely turn them off in 4Hi. I think the tazer allows this ability, so I will look into that before winter.

Yes I know actual full time systems are the bomb in winter conditions. I also know that the WJ offered them, I think the old quadradrive system was a high point for Jeep. The point I was making is that there is no full time system for the JL. There is an automatic part time system which is a very different thing.

I despise these electronic systems as well. Nothing worse than needing rally quality wheel spin in the snow to keep going and having a stupid computer take throttle control away from you. I am still trying to reconcile the risks of a tuner on a new vehicle with a warranty because I really want to disable those systems. Not so much on the Jeep as it is my wife's vehicle but on the new truck I have ordered. I found that the nannies NEVER shut off on a Power Wagon, totally ruined the vehicle experience for me...

 

[dmen]

So, I didn't know what an LSD was and looked it up because I saw it mentioned for being good in snow. Turns out our Willys has the LSD already. So, I'm not really much of a car guy (yet) and don't really know how it works. I mean I know what it does - but does it always work, or does it only work in 4H and 4L?

 

[Ridgway Jeeper]

So, I didn't know what an LSD was and looked it up because I saw it mentioned for being good in snow. Turns out our Willys has the LSD already. So, I'm not really much of a car guy (yet) and don't really know how it works. I mean I know what it does - but does it always work, or does it only work in 4H and 4L?

Always works. You do not have to do anything. I say it always works with the caveat that a clutch style LSD wears out. The more you slip the clutches, the faster it wears out and it's ability to actually transfer torque from one side to the other is indeed limited. Better than an open diff for a while though. The best type of LSD would be a True Trac torque sensing gear type differential. These do a much better job of transferring and do not wear out like the factory clutch style.

 

[Ridgway Jeeper]

You neen narrow snow tires on your Wrangler to get best traction. Rubicon tires are not ideal at all for winter... Sahara or sport are better. Lokers are useless in the winter. Traction control and torque vectoring will take care of it all.

Rubicon tires (BFG KO2) have the snowflake on the mtn rating for winter use which is far superior to a regular M&S rating. I have found KO2's to be quite good winter tires and 285's really aren't that wide especially given the weight of the typical JLU.

Lockers and stability controls are another discussion, depends on your use. On slippery highway's lockers are not useful, stability controls can be useful for those not used to driving in slippery conditions. In deep snow at low speeds, lockers are WAY more useful than stability and traction control systems.

 

[aldo98229]

So, I didn't know what an LSD was and looked it up because I saw it mentioned for being good in snow. Turns out our Willys has the LSD already. So, I'm not really much of a car guy (yet) and don't really know how it works. I mean I know what it does - but does it always work, or does it only work in 4H and 4L?

LSD works 24/7, in 2WD, 4H and 4L.

 

[lowmpg]

I'm curious to see how the Rubicon performs in Maryland mix winters. After driving trucks and sports cars my whole life, this can't possibly be any more difficult

 

[Mikeoso]

I'm curious to see how the Rubicon performs in Maryland mix winters. After driving trucks and sports cars my whole life, this can't possibly be any more difficult

Best plan in the beginning (while getting used to it) is to drive it in the snow as if it were a sports car. High torque and short wheelbase means you can find yourself oversteering and driving sideways real suddenly. It will not have the stability of a truck.

I had a lot of years driving jeeps, but had been in a Ram 1500 for quite awhile before getting my JL. Had to relearn.

 

[Bikemobile]

Tires are the most important. People got and continue to get around very well in serious winter with 2 wheel drive and snow tires.

Ive gone snow wheeling with lifted locked folks and they cant have some issues with the rear axle locked vs me with limited slip. My little 2 door sport seems to wiggle through anything I can clear on 33" Falken Wildpeak AT3W's. Other guys on 37's, and "tons" have issues with traction.

Slow down in bad weather and buy good tires.

 

[Rock Hopper]

LSD works 24/7, in 2WD, 4H and 4L.

Aldo,
Does the Sahara have the ATX Power trainSelect & full time transfer case or is that proprietary to just the MOAB model? My transfer case seems to have an additional setting (4 Wheel High Auto, which can be used at all times under any conditions). Given this option,it appears to make the JL much more capable in snowy and rainy conditions. Here is what it is listed as;

MOAB

Functional Components:
Sahara 3.6L ESS 8-Speed ATX PowertrainSelec-Trac Full-Time T-case
*2.72:1 SELEC-TRAC FULL TIME 4WD SYS
Limited Slip Differential

Key words: "Full Time 4WD sys". When I looked at other models, including the Rubicon, I did not seem to find this Spec. or the extra setting on the transfer case shift. Perhaps I overlooked it. In any case this is why the MOAB was a great choice for driving at anything faster than a crawl, in inclimate weather. I'm thinking the Sahara may be the same?

P.S. I have been driving in the snow for over 40 years and I can tell you my 2006 TJ with Duratrac tires is a mess in road snow. It's possibly one of the worst...

 

[aldo98229]

Aldo,
Does the Sahara have the ATX Power trainSelect & full time transfer case or is that proprietary to just the MOAB model? My transfer case seems to have an additional setting (4 Wheel High Auto, which can be used at all times under any conditions). Given this option,it appears to make the JL much more capable in snowy and rainy conditions. Here is what it is listed as;

MOAB

Functional Components:
Sahara 3.6L ESS 8-Speed ATX PowertrainSelec-Trac Full-Time T-case
*2.72:1 SELEC-TRAC FULL TIME 4WD SYS
Limited Slip Differential

P.S. I have been driving in the snow for over 40 years and I can tell you my 2006 TJ with Duratrac tires is a mess in road snow. It's possibly one of the worst...

Yes, Selec-Trac was standard on Moab; it was optional on Sahara; it is now available on every non-Rubicon.

My Sahara does have Selec-Trac. I specifically looked for it. I had Selec-Trac on my ZJ and WJ and fell in love with the system.

I agree: Selec-Trac makes driving a Wrangler in winter so much easier.

However, I learned right away to shift out of 4H Auto and into Part-Time as soon I hit the trail. The clutch pack that allows the Selec-Trac to work full-time on pavement doesn’t like the looseness of the trail and can overheat. Don’t ask how I know...

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