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Selling my 4xe

Yogi1956

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If you REALLY want to sell consider taking your current best offer. Lack of new inventory drove used car prices and that issue is quickly being fixed. The chips are starting to arrive and manufacturing is starting.

I’m in the RV business and we get trucks on trade with fifth wheel trailers. Late model dually diesel 4x4 trucks are being auctioned as much as 5-8,000 less today vs 30 days ago.

You do not receive a refund of any unused tax credit. If you owe $5000 in taxes you will get to use $5000 of the credit and you will not get a check for $2500.

This credit is a non refundable credit vs a refundable credit. There is a bill (Clean Energy For America Act) that as of August 2 has not passed that would change the credit to a refundable credit (only owe $4,500? You’d get a check for $3,000) currently it is non refundable and you’d get your $4,500 tax bill eliminated but no refund of unused credits. The credit could be increased to $12,500 for vehicles made in the U.S. and made by unionized manufacturers.
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Whaler27

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I use the word "forced" because the new car market had increased prices as well. An example I see around me is: MSRP $50k. Sale price $53k.

Not that I'm forced to make money, but I am forced not to lose additional money. Since I will need to replace the vehicle I view it differently than of I was just pocketing cash. Different perspectives I suppose.
I think you’re forced to recognize what the market silence is telling you (and almost everybody here is telling you). :LOL: YOU‘RE ASKING MORE THAN YOUR JEEP IS WORTH.:like:

If I were in the market for the hybrid I’d order from a competitive dealer nearby, so I could:
1) Pay $6,000+ less than you’re asking, and
2) Option the vehicle as I want it, with discounts on dealer installed parts, and
3) Get the $7,500 tax credit with confidence in proper documentation, and
4) Have a dealer that is invested in my repeat business (to assist with any warranty claims), and
5) Have the full factory warranty term, and
6) Have the full term of any freebie subscription services (Sirius, etc), and
7) Know that the vehicle has been properly broken in, and
8) Know that when I sell it will be a “one owner vehicle”, and
8) wallow in my new car smell :)

Since the beginning of time, the only advantage of buying used has been price. When the used vehicle is almost as much as the new one, most folks will buy the new one. — but when the net cost of the new one is more than $12,000 cheaper than the used one, everybody buys the new one. You’ll have to find the “one born every minute”, or the guy who wants a Jeep today and isn’t willing to travel a few hundred miles to get it.
 

Chupacabra

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Maybe it's different with a lease vs purchase, but we leased our 4xe and they took the $7.5k off msrp on the deal.

Maybe I can double dip at tax time lol
You can't because you're not the legal owner of the vehicle. You're just renting it.
 

Goin2drt

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Normally I'd agree with you, but I see so many people saying they traded in their 3 year old Wrangler and got what they paid for it 3 years ago. Unless everyone is inflating their numbers...
Ok then. Not sure why you asked for opinions and then disagree with them all. I guess we will know soon enough what it is "worth". It will sell for what someone is willing to pay for it. Let us all know how that goes.
@Whaler27 you nailed it.
 

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Ratiogear

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The "tax credit" is more of a government subsidy is how I understand it. It's $7500 from those of us who pay taxes to those of you who want a 25 miles electric range. In other words the government is trying to kick start EV and PHEVs. With those subsidies, EVs would have to compete with ICE vehicles on an even playing field. Very few would get sold that way.
Yes, exactly. It's just for once, the subsidy gives some form of benefit to the consumer, rather than the multimillion dollar corporation, like the fossil fuel subsidies which are in the billions with a b. (great resource for visualizing what 1 billion is to 1 million: https://mkorostoff.github.io/1-pixel-wealth/)

Now, even that's arguable, because Stellantis just charges more for the 4xe and the tax credit ends up being a wash for the consumer and money directly into Stellantis' pocket. Even then, it's taxpayer money being used to support an American business (it also supports non-american business but I didn't buy from them). But for anyone who purchased prior to the two price increases, that's money in their pocket.

Finally, the tax credit expires after 200k vehicles sold for that manufacturer. If anything, this is startup money. Yknow, the kind of startup aid that ICE manufacturers received to produce jeeps and tanks in ww2 and then kept in the form of their massive production infrastructure. Or the kind of subsidies they get in the form of tax breaks or perks from small local governments for bringing jobs to that area when they build a new factory or office.

I'm not going to go as far as to say that these subsidies are good things or not, but I will go as far as to say that having an issue with this credit specifically is an odd position to take, considering how much the government subsidizes so many other corporations that you (generalized you: those who generally complain about the PHEV credit) don't take issue with.

Also, considering the tax credit can't be taken advantage of unless you already pay a significant amount of taxes, it's amusing that you try to qualify "those of us who pay taxes" as separate from 4xe drivers. 4xe drivers by definition have to pay taxes to get the credit.

To summarize, I think that electric vehicles are a good thing, either as an end-product to deal with reducing ICE vehicles or as a stepping stone to a more efficient type of fuel for transportation. I think that from an America first kind of mindset--the lower our reliance on oil by the diversification of our vehicles and our power plants, the less economic stress and bargaining power of OPEC and the more we can provide for our own immediate needs on our own. I think being against that is kind of short-sighted.

And I'd say that PHEVs and EVs are kind of killing it in competing actually. Tesla's sales aren't slowing; they are growing insanely fast and their tax credits expired a helluvalong time ago.
And I'd take my 4xe against any other except the 392, but I didn't pay 70grand for mine.

Turns out creating a 21-28 electric range vehicle that always has an incredible amount of torque and hp, really works for a country where 87% of people live in a metropolitan area and don't have to drive much more than 21-28 miles a day.
 

Ratiogear

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You do not receive a refund of any unused tax credit. If you owe $5000 in taxes you will get to use $5000 of the credit and you will not get a check for $2500.

This credit is a non refundable credit vs a refundable credit. There is a bill (Clean Energy For America Act) that as of August 2 has not passed that would change the credit to a refundable credit (only owe $4,500? You’d get a check for $3,000) currently it is non refundable and you’d get your $4,500 tax bill eliminated but no refund of unused credits. The credit could be increased to $12,500 for vehicles made in the U.S. and made by unionized manufacturers.
Just want to clarify that this is only kind of true, if you don't use the tax definition of 'owe'. If the amount you 'owe to the government end of year' and the amount that you've already paid in the form of income taxes is greater than 7500, you get the full amount of the credit.

Nonrefundable vs refundable credits refers to the government giving you back more money that you've paid in federal income taxes all year (refundable) or not (nonrefundable).

A scenario where the refundable vs nonrefundable matters would be a person on a fixed or low income (sub 60k per year) who purchases a 4xe with pre-existing, non income funds, a horrendous financing rate or an underwriter asleep at the wheel. They would not be able to receive the full 7500, because they do not pay at least 7500 in federal income taxes. They would still receive up to the full amount of their actual federal income tax as a refund though, it would just not get to the full 7500.
 

Whaler27

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Normally I'd agree with you, but I see so many people saying they traded in their 3 year old Wrangler and got what they paid for it 3 years ago. Unless everyone is inflating their numbers...
Part of the problem is that many people have no idea what they actually got for their trade…. This is especially true when the dealer is providing financing. Dealers routinely inflate the trade price shown to make the buyer feel better about the deal, but the money is made up from other profit centers, like margin in the new vehicle, financing kickbacks, and factory to dealer rebates, “advertising support”, and other incentives. That’s why I stopped trading years ago. I sell my used vehicle, often via consignment, and buy the new one. This saves a TON of money and leaves me knowing what I actually paid.

These are strange times because of the unique supply and demand balance, so people have gotten crazy high prices for used vehicles, but that doesn’t equate to being able to sell your used vehicle for a crazy price when similar new vehicles are available within two or three months, or sooner.
 

wrc777

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The problem is you are trying to sell a Jeep that sells new for $63k-7.5$ tax credit for $63k. Post it up for $55-56 and it will probably sell. Your plan to pocket that $7500 as profit is probably not going to work.
 

RubiSc0tt

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I make it a point to assume the best and never be confrontational on this forum. I started out in this thread wanting to be helpful. But it seems like the OP wants to sell the Jeep after a couple of months and claim the $7500 credit for themselves even though they know full well they technically won’t qualify for it (minimum 1 year ownership).

Ok if you made a mistake buying the 4xe and want to get out, at least give the new buyer a $7500 discount to effectively pass the credit along to the person who will be the owner for most of the Jeep’s initial years of service. At least that is honoring the spirit and purpose of the credit.

But pocketing the $7500 because you know you most likely won’t get audited? That’s intentionally ripping of every tax paying American. I think it best if I no longer participate in this particular thread.
Not to jump on the dogpile, but I'm glad I wasn't the only one thinking this.
TL;DR:
OP bought 4xe Rubi 10 weeks ago
OP sees market, Thinks he can flip it for a profit
OP gets zero interest, asks "what's the problem?"
OP get's told 7 ways to Sunday: "Your price is too high"
OP: "but the Market says..." and seems to want to pocket the tax credit, which their status is questionable as is..
Nobody is still buying OP's Jeep.

THERE. I JUST SAVED YOU 6 PAGES.

Look, I'm not going to dump on you- I've considered trading my Rubi in, and going newer to take advantage of the newer model/ options. Hell, my buddy just turned his 20 JTR for $53k to Vroom for a '17 Tesla (Long-ish story) because the numbers made sense. But in my case? The numbers didn't make sense. Just like yours. Listen to the advice here: Take your current best reasonable offer, or suck it up and keep the Jeep.

I too question what changed so drastically in 10 weeks that you now want to replace the Jeep with something cheaper, because apparently you just realized the kid you've had for 13 years will turn 16 and need a vehicle in 3? Really, it's none of my business, and I'm really not trying to be a prick here, but the entire thing just seems... suspect. IF you wanted to flip the 4xe for a profit, you would have been better off just stating it up front. Like everyone here said: Ain't nobody on this forum buying it.. especially on that price.
 

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Zandcwhite

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I make it a point to assume the best and never be confrontational on this forum. I started out in this thread wanting to be helpful. But it seems like the OP wants to sell the Jeep after a couple of months and claim the $7500 credit for themselves even though they know full well they technically won’t qualify for it (minimum 1 year ownership).

Ok if you made a mistake buying the 4xe and want to get out, at least give the new buyer a $7500 discount to effectively pass the credit along to the person who will be the owner for most of the Jeep’s initial years of service. At least that is honoring the spirit and purpose of the credit.

But pocketing the $7500 because you know you most likely won’t get audited? That’s intentionally ripping of every tax paying American. I think it best if I no longer participate in this particular thread.
I don’t see anything in the tax code that says “minimum 1 year ownership”? It does say you can’t buy it with the intent of reselling, but it doesn’t sound like the OP did that? Granted, the people posting to keep the too high price because the new buyer will save on taxes are on drugs. Many states and even some counties offer additional tax credits on EV’s right now. Between the $7,500 fed, the $2,500 state, and the $1,000 local tax credit, I’ve considered trading in our 2019 rubicon on a 4xe, but there is no way I’d buy used anywhere near msrp and leave another $11k on the table. Now if he wanted to sell it at 3% below invoice-$11k I might be interested. And for those considering the tax credit, a bill just past the house to increase the fed to $10k for 2022, might have to jump on that in 6 months if it passes the senate.
 

beaups

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Yes, exactly. It's just for once, the subsidy gives some form of benefit to the consumer, rather than the multimillion dollar corporation, like the fossil fuel subsidies which are in the billions with a b. (great resource for visualizing what 1 billion is to 1 million: https://mkorostoff.github.io/1-pixel-wealth/)
200K vehicles * $7500 is also "in the billions with a b"...for each model subsidized.

Also worth mentioning is that while there are indeed subsidies going to the oil industry, there are significant federal taxes collected at the pump, unlike electricity.
 

Blanco802

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Agree with consensus here. If you need to sell or prefer to sell then take some of the reasonable offers you received and accept them. If you don't need to sell and don't mind listing the jeep for more than what you'd likely receive, then keep it up and enjoy the jeep.
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