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Selling my 4xe

Ratiogear

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200K vehicles * $7500 is also "in the billions with a b"...for each model subsidized.

Also worth mentioning is that while there are indeed subsidies going to the oil industry, there are significant federal taxes collected at the pump, unlike electricity.
It’s 1.5 billion, so it’s not quite billions, and it’s 1 time per manufacturer, which is quite different from continuous yearly subsidies. And again, it does go to the consumer. That can sometimes mean just a middle man for subsidizing the company directly, but for anyone who got a Sahara 4xe at a base price of 42k, they were getting the value from their own tax dollars. Sorry I didn’t make that clear.
And the taxes collected at the pump come from consumers, so really another way to subsidize the cost of oil with tax payer money.
 
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beaups

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It’s 1.5 billion, so it’s not quite billions, and it’s 1 time per manufacturer, which is quite different from continuous yearly subsidies. And again, it does go to the consumer. That can sometimes mean just a middle man for subsidizing the company directly, but for anyone who got a Sahara 4xe at a base price of 42k, they were getting the value from their own tax dollars. Sorry I didn’t make that clear.
And the taxes collected at the pump come from consumers, so really another way to subsidize the cost of oil with tax payer money.
Semantics. 1.5B is "in the billions" and 1.5B per manufacturer * multiple manufacturers is in the "several billions". Either way you look at it, it's a huge subsidy for items that the lower class can't afford (let alone take advantage of the tax credit) to push a product along that the infrastructure can't remotely support mainstream adoption of. So what does it accomplish exactly? I'm not by any means a denier that electric is the future, but in the short-term it just seems to be away to redistribute wealth to virtue signalers.

We do agree on one thing: all of these $$$ come from taxpayers.
 

csjlu

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Semantics. 1.5B is "in the billions" and 1.5B per manufacturer * multiple manufacturers is in the "several billions". Either way you look at it, it's a huge subsidy for items that the lower class can't afford (let alone take advantage of the tax credit) to push a product along that the infrastructure can't remotely support mainstream adoption of. So what does it accomplish exactly? I'm not by any means a denier that electric is the future, but in the short-term it just seems to be away to redistribute wealth to virtue signalers.

We do agree on one thing: all of these $$$ come from taxpayers.
The same wealth redistribution argument can be re-spun so it says profitable fossil fuel exploration and production companies benefit from (1) unnecessary corporate tax incentives and (2) low/middle class consumers paying regressive excise taxes at the pump for the benefit of anti-virtue signalers. It's a circular argument that goes both ways, and has been played out multiple times on the JLWF.

The argument you didn't touch upon is that electric can lead to greater domestic infrastructure and jobs creation, and dampen US trade imbalances. That's something we can all support.
 

Spearmin

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Good afternoon,

I have my Rubicon 4xe listed for sale in the forums here in addition to other places. I have received very little interest and was wondering if I could get some guidance on why that might be.

I have it listed for $65k with just over 3k miles and all stock with the exception of a sun shade, stubby antenna, ect. Since I bought the 4xe 10 weeks ago, Jeep has increases the cost of the 4xe by over $3k. Building my specs comes out to $63,326.

Do I have it listed too high at $65k? I'm not trying to make a killing selling it, but I feel like I'm forced to ask above book value because even new cars are being listed $2-3k above MSRP.

Or do not enough people know about or trust the newer hybrid system in the Wrangler?

Any insight would be appreciated.
If not too personal of a question, why are you selling it? Not what you expected? Gas mileage too low? Just don't like it?
 

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Spearmin

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Does anyone know if they will be offering the 4xe at the sport level for next year. I test drove one yesterday and I liked it. However, I don't particularly like the Sahahras, and I pretty much can't use the extras that a Rubicon come with, so sport is the way to go for me. Actually, if the Sahara didn't have those painted fenders I would hop right on it.
 

Ratiogear

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Semantics. 1.5B is "in the billions" and 1.5B per manufacturer * multiple manufacturers is in the "several billions". Either way you look at it, it's a huge subsidy for items that the lower class can't afford (let alone take advantage of the tax credit) to push a product along that the infrastructure can't remotely support mainstream adoption of. So what does it accomplish exactly? I'm not by any means a denier that electric is the future, but in the short-term it just seems to be away to redistribute wealth to virtue signalers.

We do agree on one thing: all of these $$$ come from taxpayers.
You’re right, I should’ve done more to emphasize the amount of subsidies fossil fuel companies get.

Because it’s billions and billions every year, and for decades past. And just because the lower class can’t afford the 4xe doesn’t mean that there aren’t affordable ev and phev options that do earn then the tax credit, even if they don’t get the full amount. Like they ioniq or Prius.

And the infrastructure is developed as needs increase. The more Evs and phevs produced and purchased, the greater the demand for infrastructure and the greater the potential profit for energy producers to look at charging infrastructure as a for profit option. We’re still in phase 1 of that development.

but again, the mind set of “wealth redistribution to virtue signaler” is just selectively being upset that your neighbor is getting their taxes back, but you aren’t. The general push back against this ev credit is hilarious, because it’s only just arising now that you tax money is going to someone besides the multi million dollar corporations.
 

JSFoster75

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Carvanna and Vroom don't have updated pricing for the 4xe last I checked. They don't have the hybrid as an option to select.

Try AutoNation.com they gave me $1,300 more than Carvana...
 

Mgg253

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you know I’ve had more time to think… I’m gonna go find a dealer that will order me a new 4xe and take mine on trade! Sticker was 67k I paid 59k. So if I get an offer of 58k+ and trade in on a new one at 1% under invoice…. BuhBAM nother tax credit! Figure I’ll take a 1-2k hit but another 7500 lined up!

I’m starting to think OP really has something going here! Any word on the XR package on 2022 4xe’s???
 

OINC

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Just a heads up, there is a requirement in the credit for the vehicle to be purchased for personal use and not for resale.

The following requirements must be met to qualify for the credit. • You are the owner of the vehicle. If the vehicle is leased, only the lessor and not the lessee, is entitled to the credit. • You placed the vehicle in service during your tax year. • The vehicle is manufactured primarily for use on public streets, roads, and highways. • The original use of the vehicle began with you. • You acquired the vehicle for use or to lease to others, and not for resale. • You use the vehicle primarily in the United States.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i8936.pdf
So, I asked my accountant about this because in the case I decide not to keep my order but my dealer won't refund my deposit, I'd sell after it gets titled to me through the DMV. Her response was that because it would be titled to me as a personal vehicle and I'm not in the business of vehicle sales (and certainly would not make a profit from the sale), even if I sell it quickly afterwards it won't count as resale. There is no minimum ownership time requirement. Your accountant may have a different answer, but that's what mine said.
 

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maxmxa

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Just as many others have mentioned here, I would also say it's mostly due to not getting the $7.5K and the fact a new one can be ordered for less.

Jeep holds its resale value well comparatively speaking, but more so after the first couple of years. Being less than a year old and asking that price makes it tough.

I would bet you could get the most out of your sale going through VROOM or similar sites. I sold mine through VROOM and they offered me way more than any local dealer would ever give me and without any of the dealer hassles and insults (when trying to sell to them).
 

OINC

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You’re right, I should’ve done more to emphasize the amount of subsidies fossil fuel companies get.

Because it’s billions and billions every year, and for decades past. And just because the lower class can’t afford the 4xe doesn’t mean that there aren’t affordable ev and phev options that do earn then the tax credit, even if they don’t get the full amount. Like they ioniq or Prius.

And the infrastructure is developed as needs increase. The more Evs and phevs produced and purchased, the greater the demand for infrastructure and the greater the potential profit for energy producers to look at charging infrastructure as a for profit option. We’re still in phase 1 of that development.

but again, the mind set of “wealth redistribution to virtue signaler” is just selectively being upset that your neighbor is getting their taxes back, but you aren’t. The general push back against this ev credit is hilarious, because it’s only just arising now that you tax money is going to someone besides the multi million dollar corporations.
It’s also hilarious when people say “but the infrastructure isn’t there!111!11”, as though infrastructure is fixed and can never change, and as though our current network of gas stations and gas transport emerged fully formed 120-140 years ago when the horseless carriage was entirely in the reach only of the privileged elite.
 

beaups

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It’s also hilarious when people say “but the infrastructure isn’t there!111!11”, as though infrastructure is fixed and can never change, and as though our current network of gas stations and gas transport emerged fully formed 120-140 years ago when the horseless carriage was entirely in the reach only of the privileged elite.
Did the federal $7500 tax credits subsidies for gas car buyers come before or after the gas stations were built out? I can’t remember.
 

OINC

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Did the federal $7500 tax credits subsidies for gas car buyers come before or after the gas stations were built out? I can’t remember.
Before, during, and after until the present day — but the tax benefits went directly to the oil and gas companies and not the consumer, as @Ratiogear mentioned.
 

KrispyKotex

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Recap: Bought jeep, but wants to sell it used well above MSRP. The market values going on right now for used vehicles are short term. I had a friend who several years ago, bought into the Playstation 4 frenzy. He bought 4 PS4s and tried to sell them well above asking price. Long story short, but he took a bath in his greed and absorbed a huge loss. This market for used vehicles is short term. My advice is to get out now and as quickly as you can. If someone offers you near MSRP for a used vehicle TAKE IT!!! I personally would not buy anything above MSRP, but hey.....people buy pet rocks, so who am I to say there's not a market for it?
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