OEM Battery...

[MichaelAnthony]

Trust me in this … I have discussed either thru emails or phone calls with battery makers and battery charger makers and they all did not agree on several concerns I had but they did all agree that batteries that are not sized to compliment each other when connected charge and discharge at different rates so when you have say a 70 aH battery and a 30 aH battery connected together and throw a 20 amp 14+ volt charge at them as that’s what the smart charger will do since it can’t isolate the batteries it will likely over time cook the smaller battery over time and shorten it’s life

The only way to avoid this is to put in a jumper bypass that allows you to separate them during a charging cycle

true story right there.....

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[BullMoose1776]

Well, well, well. Here I am in this thread. You all know why.

2 years and 2 weeks and I've got a dead cranking battery. At least I'm on the driveway.

2 or 3 weeks ago I started getting the "Aux Switches aren't available" at start up message, and I KNEW I should have done something.

Oh well, I ordered the Genesis Dual Battery Tray and I'll get 2 good batteries for it.

Working from home and only short trips to the grocery store for 15 months, coupled with the Texas Snowpocalypse in the winter and the Summer Texas heat...what do you expect.

 

[NewJLU2019]

Well, well, well. Here I am in this thread. You all know why.

2 years and 2 weeks and I've got a dead cranking battery. At least I'm on the driveway.

2 or 3 weeks ago I started getting the "Aux Switches aren't available" at start up message, and I KNEW I should have done something.

Oh well, I ordered the Genesis Dual Battery Tray and I'll get 2 good batteries for it.

Working from home and only short trips to the grocery store for 15 months, coupled with the Texas Snowpocalypse in the winter and the Summer Texas heat...what do you expect.

@WranglerMan turned me on to the Battery Tender. My New Jeep was naked for months during our Wet spring months we had and stayed parked inside lot. Retired this year early so not driving to and from work anymore. I purchased the NOCO Genius 10 and have been using it during down time for our Jeeps.

I believe even purchasing the Dual Battery tray would still be good to use a tender.

 

[WranglerMan]

@NewJLU2019 I use a NOCO 10 all the time on my dual Genesis setup and it’s safe to use a stock setup as long as you don’t charge that baby ESS battery separately as it’s a bit to much power for that little battery, NOCO disagrees with me but I would rather slightly go under than over.

If you leave the batteries connected as they are designed you are doing your batteries a great service ?? with the NOCO

 

[WranglerMan]

@PaulW you are 100% on the mark, the biggest battery killer is not a regular charging regime, higher quality batteries like Odyssey, Full River, North Star etc… do better as there cyclic rate and DOD ratings are a lot better than the bargain budget batteries but they all have to be kept up on.

Currently my dual system is sitting on my NOCO 10 and that’s even after driving 30 miles X 2 each day for the past week, they both metered at 12.6-12.7 after being parked for 10-12 hrs but still I like to keep them at peak per Full River’s recommendations even though they have superior plating with better than average venting of the cases and I even do a deep cycle recondition once a month to reduce any sulfate buildup on the plates..

I tell anyone that does not drive a lot to keep there batteries on a smart charger, the one you choose is up to you but remember match it to the battery not your wallet.

 

[BullMoose1776]

@PaulW you are 100% on the mark, the biggest battery killer is not a regular charging regime, higher quality batteries like Odyssey, Full River, North Star etc… do better as there cyclic rate and DOD ratings are a lot better than the bargain budget batteries but they all have to be kept up on.

Currently my dual system is sitting on my NOCO 10 and that’s even after driving 30 miles X 2 each day for the past week, they both metered at 12.6-12.7 after being parked for 10-12 hrs but still I like to keep them at peak per Full River’s recommendations even though they have superior plating with better than average venting of the cases and I even do a deep cycle recondition once a month to reduce any sulfate buildup on the plates..

I tell anyone that does not drive a lot to keep there batteries on a smart charger, the one you choose is up to you but remember match it to the battery not your wallet.

I'm learning ALOT, from this thread. How about some pics of y'all's set up?

I've got the @Genesis Offroad dual battery tray coming tomorrow. I bought two Optima Yellow tops, on recommendation of my brother, and research.

Might be overkill? Might be underkill?

Sounds like I need a charger. Can y'all tell me more about this? What do y'all have?

 

[NewJLU2019]

I'm learning ALOT, from this thread. How about some pics of y'all's set up?

I've got the @Genesis Offroad dual battery tray coming tomorrow. I bought two Optima Yellow tops, on recommendation of my brother, and research.

Might be overkill? Might be underkill?

Sounds like I need a charger. Can y'all tell me more about this? What do y'all have?

I do not have the Dual battery set-up like @WranglerMan runs. My Jeep is only few months old.

I do keep my Jeeps on the NOCO Genius 10 now. Picture shows fully charged and flashing Green is maintenance charging.

 

[WranglerMan]

I'm learning ALOT, from this thread. How about some pics of y'all's set up?

I've got the @Genesis Offroad dual battery tray coming tomorrow. I bought two Optima Yellow tops, on recommendation of my brother, and research.

Might be overkill? Might be underkill?

Sounds like I need a charger. Can y'all tell me more about this? What do y'all have?

When you say you have the Genesis tray coming along with some Odyssey batteries are you just getting the tray and wiring the batteries together or did you get the complete kit that utilizes the smart isolator and solenoid ?

I used to be a Odyssey fan but then looked at Full River and found they were on par with Odyssey pricing but plating was thinner so they can stack more lead plates in the case closer together and reduce the free space of the fluid and the cases are thicker with a lower vent pressure so as it gets hot with reduced fluid space cooling occurs faster and with the low venting both of these contribute to less electrolyte loss.

As far as the charger the NOCO 10 is good but it really depends on what yellow tops you got as the aH ratings are different and I’m not 100% sure those will fit in the Genesis tray as the Odyssey’s are slightly different In size but not much.

General rule for recondition charging is .20-.35% of the aH rating but doing reconditioned charging is not really needed but I do it once a month and use a Odyssey 20 amp 6-stage as it holds the voltage at 14.4-14.5 for about 5-7 hrs and the Full River batteries like this for the bulk charge but with the Cole Hersee solenoid pulling power and the general loss thru the wiring along with the normal parasitic draw even my 20 amp is slightly under for the .20% as I technically should have like 25 amps but being slightly under is not that bad as it’s not under by much and it’s only for the bulk charge anyway and then the volts and amps drop and goes to conditioning for several hours then float/maintain and I only use this charger once a month to heat them up to reduce and sulfite buildup and normally use a NOCO 10 weekly.

If you want just one charger the NOCO 10 is fine as you can use the repair mode as a reconditioned charger, it will do the same as the odyssey 20 but only do it for fours hours then goes to standby .

Those little small aH maintainers that are like 1-2 amps are ok once the batteries are fully charged but do little to nothing to reduce sulfate buildup on the plates, they come close on voltage output but not even close on aH output especially with the parasitic draw.

Heres an example for those little maintainers, if your batteries are down to 80% DOD ( 20% loss )and combined they are 120 aH that means to be at 100% you need to come up 24 aH now if your using a 1.25 aH maintainer and you take away what the Genesis solenoid is pulling plus normal parasitic draw is about 700 ma that leaves about .7 amp for the charge so that would take approx 36 hrs to be at 100% but this is at a 80% and that’s not normal as most batteries are not pulled down that far but this is just to give you an idea.

And yes I ramble on sometimes but battery upkeep is not as easy as it once was many years ago.

 

[wibornz]

Those batteries are almost all made by the same company, Johnson Controls.

and again, regardless of your history, the majority of batteries fail within 4 years.

I don't know who makes the batteries for Kia, but both of my Kia Optima batteries lasted over 200,000 miles and about 8 years. Maybe we should order batteries from a Kia dealership.

 

[Odyssey USA]

My stock battery died at 1.5 years of ownership and about 34k miles. Pretty lame.

 

[NewJLU2019]

wrangler man, you are up to speed for batteries in general and your comments will mislead most uninformed folks.

Specifically for our use:
A 3 stage maintainer will work fine. Sulfated battery wont happen except in rare circumstances and a multistage maintainer is way overkill. 3 stage will be fine for 90+% of the folks.
A 1-2 amp maintainer will work fine it just takes longer to get the battery topped off.
I have a fleet of vehicles and only use 1.5 amp 3 stage units. However I have a 3 stage 3 amp unit for my rig that gets driven most regularly.
What the readers really need to know is Google will give reviews for maintainers and batteries of applicable size and these reviews should always be used before buying. The reviews will save money and avoid crappy or inferior products.

Correct - never charge thru a relay, solenoid or diode. One of the reasons the Genisis is not perfect for Normal use (not maintainer use).
Always connect the maintainer + to the battery + and the maintainer - to the vehicle chassis ground.
Got two batteries the use two maintainers and get them both correctly charged.

 

[Chile1]

my 2018 JLUR only has 27K miles and i had the battery replaced yesterday because it all of the sudden just died..

 

[Odyssey USA]

my 2018 JLUR only has 27K miles and i had the battery replaced yesterday because it all of the sudden just died..

Same here. Out of nowhere. No crazy lights…no warnings.

 

[WranglerMan]

@PaulW when I was looking at alternatives to suit my power needs and finally decided on the Genesis dual system I started researching charging for the Full River 750 batteries I had decided to go with and I started with Full River and told them I had been using a Deltran 1.25 aH tender on my stock setup and there advice was and they said they did not want me to be offended but to save that type of low amp tender for my garden tractor or motorcycle as this type of tender/maintainer would do more harm than good for my new batteries.

So with that info I started to chat with several other battery makers and charger makers (Odyssey, Full River, North Star, NOCO, CTEK) these were my top companies and they all are not cheap, we all know batteries start to degrade from day #1 but I wanted to get the most from what I invested in so I put the same question to all I spoke to and that lead me to charging curves and then ( bulk, conditioning and float ) charging and then it all started to run together but I kept digging as this type of stuff kinda intrigued me so then I looked at battery design in regard to plating, case venting, electrolyte composition which I found out all is not the same even though most think battery acid is all the same.

In the end yes one can use that type of low amp maintainer but all I spoke to advised these types of chargers as that’s what they are even though small should only be used once a battery is at full charge and properly conditioned and conditioning does not have to be done at the level I chose but I went with what I liked given the charging curve that the Full River batteries like to see.

I will openly admit that once I had my new system in I proceeded to do some testing. and I included the Deltran initially until I saw it fell short for my batteries needs based on the voltages needed, the Deltran never metered over 13.3-13.5 volts and output was in the 1.1-1.2 amp rating and by the time I subtracted the parasitic draw of the normal things and then added in what the Genesis system was pulling I was charging at 13.4 volts at less than 700 ma and this according to all the makers I talked to advised this contributes to buildup on plating due to the fact the charge cycle does not warm the electrolyte fluid enough to prevent it from remaining in a fluid state and plate buildup occurs over time but the length of time it takes is based on so many variables like depth of discharge, charging temp and ambient temp and age are just a few.

In the end after all the talks I had either thru emails or calls to the techs at all these places both battery and charger makers using a budget charger does what it says it does but it does not optimize batteries enough to get the maximum life from them so I went with what my system would benefit the most from.

The cyclic discharge of all of these pricy batteries are pretty high but to get max life from them under normal use while being in the vehicle while charging is to keep the depth of discharge to a minimum as much as possible but honestly I have no idea whether that will add years or maybe just months so time will tell.

 

[WranglerMan]

==
You got great info from product sellers and it conforms to correct battery theory. In real life I do not believe it matters at all. There are way more things that the battery sees and endures that are much more important then exact theory of battery maintenance. Do the maintain with a 1.5-3A maintainer and most folks will have a very long life battery and never see static battery voltage below about 13v.

Paul,

I think the main reason for my obsession with battery upkeep besides the cost to replace them is how complicated battery design has changed over these many years and it peaks my interest and feeds my OCD, I am a Gas Pipeline Controller and this career has me constantly overthinking most things as I have to.

In regard to static voltage being below 13 volts and my static voltage on my main crank battery without being connected to a charger and in the vehicle usually runs 12.6-12.7 after being parked for 12 hrs and this is due to the parasitic draw that the Cole Hersey solenoid pulls to keep the batteries connected until the main crank sees 12.7 +/-.1 and mine normally disconnect at 12.6, my aux is normally in the 12.8 range.

Here was my testing into the Genesis system if you get bored and I have done additional research since then.

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...ll-by-tank-customs-and-charger-testing.61493/

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