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72Blazer

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I don't understand this mindset. Not only do you need people to thank you for your being gracious enough to let them by, but you also blame them for riding your ass b/c of your slowing of traffic in the first place.

It's not that complicated. Yield to faster moving traffic. If you see someone coming up on you in trophy truck fashion....find the first place you can to get over. Being in a group makes that a little more challenging, but that's what the radios are for.

Or, conversely....uphill traffic has right of way on narrow, one lane mountain roads.

It's just like on the freeway....the left lane is for passing....you don't camp in it regardless of whether or not you feel you're going 'fast enough'...and you're already "speeding".
Meh. Goes back to the original point of conversation. Iā€™m of the mindset Iā€™ll thank someone for moving over and helping out on the trail. Good manners goes a long way in any setting. For the specific example, once we did hit a clearing we did move over. Not sure if your reading failed you? And we were going at a steady pace to enjoy the views and scenery. Not a snail pace or trophy truck pace. Wasnā€™t really in the mood to race that weekend on the cliff sides.
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72Blazer

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Perhaps it did. Unless there was such a long line of traffic on the San Juans trail section you mention (Engineer, IIRC) so as traffic is at a crawl or standstill (due to breakdowns, uphill/downhill traffic passing, etc)...then I have a hard time believing it would take 5 minutes to find a place to pull off to let something as narrow as a RZR pass. Maybe you left that part of your story out? Hmm....maybe it's not my reading that's the problem, but your storytelling? ;)



So essentially you're saying you were the slower moving traffic (than the "trophy trucks") and you felt it was "fast enough". Thanks for proving my point so eloquently without apparently even realizing it. :like:

Essentially, what I've learned from your post is that as long as I wave after I pass you in trophy truck fashion, all will be forgiven. Good to know. Seriously.
:CWL:
 

Dkretden

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I find it interesting that all these ā€˜inconsiderateā€ folks or ā€œasshatsā€œ or ā€™jerksā€ exist but not a one of US thinks that WE are. For me? Iā€™m perfect.
 

Dkretden

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Oh no, I'm the asshole that will pass you at 60-70mph in the dirt....I typically don't wave b/c at that speed, I really don't think it wise to be removing my hands from the wheel.

But I also think you're an asshole if you don't yield pretty quickly to faster traffic....just as I do if I'm the one having someone fly up behind me.
Sean, hereā€™s the thing:

I agree with you....... but......

1) I will move over when I feel it safe for me to move over and stop To let someone by. I try to do that quickly but.... did the other guy think that I did it quick enough? Or was I part of the ā€œproblemā€?
2) on shared trails with hikers or cyclists, I try to stop and let them by as they approach me. But, did I do it soon enough To let the dust settle or do they think me a jerk for ā€œdustingā€ them?
3) I try to move at a ā€œnormalā€ rate of speed but do the folks behind me think Iā€™m going to slow or too fast and kicking up dust?
4) I always stop to get litter if I see some. I try to take out more than I took in. But, the folks behind me.... are they thinking ā€œwhat an asshat, heā€™s stopping again.ā€
5) can I legitimately say that I have never left one scrap of paper or one shred of plastic (or these days a mask) on the trail? No, we not Gods and occasionally we will leave something behind. Iā€™m quite sure that the folks who come after me, despite all my good intentions, look at that lost mask or plastic bottle and call me a Total Jerk.

according to many on this thread, they must be perfect because even folks with the best intentions can ā€œdo stuffā€ that others deem ā€œasshatteryā€....... that is the way it works. With some exceptions, the folks that many on here call buttheads, may well be trying to to the right thing just like the folks on this board who are apparently perfect.
 

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72Blazer

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3) Normal is subjective. As I said, "normal" for me is 60+ on fire roads in areas where I can see far enough ahead....the police in my area didn't agree, but they didn't win that battle in court either. In this part of AZ, there's dust on the fire roads unless it's raining....yes, there's more with more speed, but you'll never eliminate it. It's not really tolerable for long in an open vehicle even if the other person is going 25 mph or less. You either drop waaay back or pass.
Shoot if I was bombing down desert roads to get to the trails then definitely. Canā€™t compare apples to oranges being on a mountainside. If you didnā€™t notice ā€œtrophy truckā€ was a joking term. It did seem like a trophy truck compared to the ā€œnormalā€ speed EVERYONE else was going though. Itā€™s easy to be subjective in that specific instance in that specific terrain because 98% of jeeps, Toyotaā€™s, blazers, etc were going the same general speed :CWL: But we can keep beating this to death. It is what it is. At least next time wave :flipoff2:
 

72Blazer

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Will do....but I drive 40-45 mph on Imogene (for example) in the more open sections with 5ish lbs of air in the tires.

Still doesn't change the fact that faster traffic came up behind you and your 'normal' speed....why not let 'em by? Your argument is essentially the ad populum fallacy..."everyone else" was going that speed....so therefore we all have to.
Meh. I was with my wife and kids enjoying the beautiful scenery and taking it all in. Who knows when Iā€™ll ever be back so I was taking it all in. As stated, with the RZR I wasnā€™t leading and as soon as we had a better clearing we let him by. Same with the Rebel guys, as soon as we came to a clearing and WE felt safe enough to pull over we did. I felt It hypocritical how they preach enjoying the beautiful outdoors when in our situation they put a damper in it. Vice versa, who knows maybe we put a damper on their fast ascent to the summit.
 

EVMIII

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I was in Moab for the first week in September (last month) for the first time and had a blast. We tend to get started pretty early so I saw very little traffic on the trails. Tagged up with another fellow in a great looking orange Rubicon that helped my newbie self through Fins and Things and Hellā€™s Revenge (I SKIPPED THE ESCALATOR). We did Gemini Bridges and Bull Canyon and I think we saw one group of side by sides and they were very polite. Lots of folks staging when we finished; only problem they presented was finding a parking spot to air back up. Road construction in Moab was not very pleasant. Traffic to the North of town (in and out) was pretty bad. We did Needles in the morning with not must traffic, but they were turning people away by the time we left. i donā€™t have a standard of comparison since I had never been before, but I definitely plan to go back. Everybody we talked to was very friendly and welcoming. Sorry OP had a bad experience, no doubt there are rude and ignorant folks everywhere and sounds like you found a bunch of them. I wish I had been able to see it 10 years ago before it grew but Iā€™m glad I got to see it now. We went from there to Zion and Bryce, you want talk about crowds- wow. If my 20 years in the USAF taught me anything it was patience, hurry up and wait was one of our sayings, Zion tested all that I had. Hope to se you all in Moab.
 

Duck Dodgers

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ā€œIt is all about me.ā€
Those 5 words have replaced these 5words.
Manners, courtesy, respect and common sense.
 

OnlyOne

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Weā€™ve been going to Moab for years on end. This year has just been screwed. Most people are just getting out because of COVID crap. They will get bored with it and it will calm down.
 

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Was in Moab this weekend and ran Fins and Hell's revenge yesterday (Sunday). started Fins around 9a and was done by 1130 - no traffic or issues other than the group of 8 motorcycles that spaced themselves out just enough to where you thought it was the last one only to hear another one coming and they weren't giving any indication as to how many more there were.

Hell's was busier and started the ascent behind a group of 8-10 jeeps. was fine since i was solo except for they all wanted to stop and take videos of each other at the top of each climb which was annoying given the limited space on the ridges. one broke down not too far in so was able to get past. the RZR convoys picked up later in the day but wasn't a huge issue as i just let them pass so they could go at it.

my thought is that there is always going to be someone with a different agenda than yours - RZRs are always going to be faster, big jeep groups are always going to be slower. Just enjoy yourself and don't worry about everyone else. just be glad you have windows to keep the dust out when in moab.

btw, the traffic and construction in moab is ridiculous. we camped north of arches and didn't try getting into town after 10a to avoid the traffic.
 

morleyz

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We were in Moab 2 weeks ago. Crazy busy everywhere compared to previous times. Construction didn't help. We were looking for more of the scenic trails than technical trails, but it seemed like they were all busy, especially by afternoon. I didn't think it was terrible, but my two biggest complaints were:

1) Speed - I'm not a crawl along and take pictures every 10 feet in the middle of the trail kind of guy, but there is too much speed on the trails. I don't mind pulling over and letting you pass, but when you're just barreling down every path, you're damaging the trail, you're damaging the flora, you're making it dangerous for other drivers. The Moab area hadn't really seen any rain prior to and during our visit and you can just watch the trails blowing away in the wind. By afternoon, all trails just had a haze on them from the dust hanging in the air. Soon they'll just be ruts or jagged rock that no one is allowed to use.

2) Not having a f-ing clue what your group is doing. Worst example, we're heading into a blind, narrow corner around a cliff. At a pretty convenient pull out spot, UTV comes around towards us and we move over into the pull-out and let him pass. He signals "3 more" and we wait. And wait. And wait. Finally another comes and we're thinking, "about time" but still a good minute in between #2 and #s 3 and 4. #4 UTV gives us the "4 more" (he shouted it too...so I wasn't misinterpreting it as a wave) signal and we put in park and take some pictures. I kid you not, we waited a full 5 minutes before getting back in and moving on. I have no idea where those other 4 went. They never showed up and we went another 15 minutes before we saw anyone. Was the guy just a d-bag? I dunno, but 60% of the UTV drivers we encountered and talked to were trashed by 3pm, so maybe take that a little more seriously when the trails are packed? Is that too much to ask?

I guess I sort of made that into 3 things.
 

Blade1668

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Its funny here, the hikers have the ear of politicians because they approach things with the "save the environment" schtick and get all access to so called public lands closed to everyone but themselves. But if you travel the trails they now rule there is garbage everywhere and they leave huge messes where they camp over and over again in groups. They never cared about the environment to begin with, at least alot of them didn't, they just wanted exclusive access. They are no different than any other group, some good ones and some assholes, its just a shame how much pull they have with politicians over and above people who want to recreate differently.
Not a barb to you just a Segway in on this problem.

A old line "What is the difference between a backpacker and a bum" a trust fund.
Now about that, I'm not a trust fund kid I started camping and backpacking in 80s, MTN bike in 90s(pedal powered) Jeeps after returning from Desert Storm. I grew up with dirt bikes, snowmobiles and ATVs in 70s-80s. During all of this I've seen disdain for about all by the another, I've seen a messes left by about all. Backpackers that crap n leave it same for the rest. I don't even want to talk about the horse back riding crowds.... and I've been in that group due to family having horses.
Two or so of them groups have ganged up and got the rest locked out of many areas:mad:
All groups have way to many dirtbags in them or just dirtbags as the group.
I've been trying to get to EJS and MOAB for many years during my service years a no go due to getting leave or deployments then more stuff now after that I was a go for this year until C.V. 19 shut it down. I spent a lot of staycation near home.
 
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Fredski007

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I find it to be a little interesting that the local Jeep groups put up this billboard right at THIS rental area in town!

9EEFECDF-E4A2-46E9-93F7-A23CB4DE933C.jpeg
 

Dkretden

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I just returned from Moab. I had been there only once before, 15-years ago, for a business retreat. I can say this:

- the road construction is (temporarily) making the traffic horrific
- the amount of new building construction, to my eye, is huge and the town has lost that ā€œsmall townā€ feel.
- trying to cross main street on foot in Moab is an affair for only the most daring. The traffic is non-stop and the town is not ā€œwalkableā€ any more.

- the people (locals, working in hotels, restaurants, grocery) were perfectly friendly and nice folks. Zero issues with that.
- everyone that we met on the trails were friendly and respectful of each other (Except for one razor sh*thead). But thatā€™s just people being people.

- local newspaper was talking about new restrictions on UTVs and ATVs (noise, rentals, no new rental businesses. etc) successfully passing city and county government.

the town that I remember from 15 years ago is gone. its a new town now. Not bad, just different. The locals will need to sort out what the next 20-years is going to be like and what needs to change, if anything, to fulfill their collective goals.
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