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M/T a bit frustrating

jdubya421

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The numbers I posted are peak (WOT) torque values at the crankshaft, without any drive-train loss. Manufactures do have different tunes for auto vs. manual, but I don't think that's what is going on here. I suspect that it's the part throttle response that is the issue. The 4.0 had great off-idle torque with only partial throttle input. I haven't driven a manual 3.6 JL, but I know that Jeep's DBW is tuned to be slightly 'muted' (probably for fuel economy reasons).

My other vehicle is a manual DBW with little low end torque, and after tuning the DBW curve drivability and slow speed control was greatly improved.
This is the only thing I wish I could change about my Jeep. The throttle control sucks and the rev hang annoys me so much. You have to push the pedal half way to get any amount of input - its DBW, they can tune all of that out. Is there a way to get a tune right now?
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DanW

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This just came out today...

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/jee...eep-gladiator-sport-manual-first-test-review/

“The Aisin D478 transmission is poorly matched to the 3.6-liter V-6, which suffers a low-end torque deficit“
Lol....and these are the same Motor Trend writers who have forgotten how to drive a manual, or never knew how to drive one to begin with. In the JL, they didn't blame the engine, but rather the clutch take-up.

The funny thing is that they were stalling the Rubicon off-road and in low range when testing preproduction JL's in New Zealand. How the heck do you stall a Rubicon with 4.10's and the best overall crawl ratio ever put in a Wrangler?? :LOL:

They got out of their paddle-shifted Corvette C-8's, Audis, and BMW's, and drove a Jeep.....for a few minutes, and then stalled it. So the "experts" at MT have spoken.

Funny, though, they used to rave about the 3.6 in the JK, which was heavier and with the Gen 1 Pentastar, mated to the NSG370, which has the manners and clutch/shifter feel of a dump truck. Of course, the writers they had back then (2007) actually were experienced with manual transmissions.

Btw, I'd love to see that female Jeep engineer thoroughly humiliate the Motor Trend writers as she navigates trails in the Gladiator with the manual. I'll bet she wasn't struggling with stalling it, either. Those guys need to go back to playing Forza and drinking Mountain Dew.

Like I said, if it bothers anyone, get an auto or even the 2.0. I'm leaving this evening for another off-road trip in the JL and can't wait. The 3.6/Aisin combo is one of the things I love most about driving the JL. I'll have that same stupid smile that it puts on my face every time I drive it.
 

jdubya421

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Lol....and these are the same Motor Trend writers who have forgotten how to drive a manual, or never knew how to drive one to begin with. In the JL, they didn't blame the engine, but rather the clutch take-up.

The funny thing is that they were stalling the Rubicon off-road and in low range when testing preproduction JL's in New Zealand. How the heck do you stall a Rubicon with 4.10's and the best low range ratio ever put in a Wrangler?? :LOL:

They got out of their paddle-shifted Corvette C-8's, Audis, and BMW's, and drove a Jeep.....for a few minutes, and then stalled it. So the "experts" at MT have spoken.

Funny, though, they used to rave about the 3.6 in the JK, which was heavier and with the Gen 1 Pentastar, mated to the NSG370, which has the manners and clutch/shifter feel of a dump truck. Of course, the writers they had back then (2007) actually were experienced with manual transmissions.

Btw, I'd love to see that female Jeep engineer thoroughly humiliate the Motor Trend writers as she navigates trails in the Gladiator with the manual. I'll bet she wasn't struggling with stalling it, either. Those guys need to go back to playing Forza and drinking Mountain Dew.

Like I said, if it bothers anyone, get an auto or even the 2.0. I'm leaving this evening for another off-road trip in the JL and can't wait. The 3.6/Aisin combo is one of the things I love most about driving the JL. I'll have that same stupid smile that it puts on my face every time I drive it.
How anyone stalls in 4LO is beyond me. Unless you are doing some rock crawling that requires a decent amount of skill, its nearly impossible to stall. I've watched my speedo hit 0mph without stalling.
 

AnnDee4444

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AnnDee4444

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If only a major automaker selling the most popular vehicle with an available 6MT could ask their transmission supplier to provide a transmission with the appropriate torque spec....
Unfortunately, that's not FCA's style.
This is the only thing I wish I could change about my Jeep. The throttle control sucks and the rev hang annoys me so much. You have to push the pedal half way to get any amount of input - its DBW, they can tune all of that out. Is there a way to get a tune right now?
Pedal Commander is the only option that I know of, but an actual tune would be a better option if it ever becomes available.

*Edit: looks like HPTuners can adjust the throttle mapping tune.


The graphs below further show the differences in torque at throttle angles less than 100%. While these are not the 4.0 or 3.6, I suspect that the 4.0 would be similar to Engine 1, while the 3.6 would be closer to Engine 2. Graph is from: http://www.optimumg.com/technical/throttle-maps-and-tire-wear/


Jeep Wrangler JL M/T a bit frustrating throttle_ma
 
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8flat

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The numbers I posted are peak (WOT) torque values at the crankshaft, without any drive-train loss. Manufactures do have different tunes for auto vs. manual, but I don't think that's what is going on here. I suspect that it's the part throttle response that is the issue. The 4.0 had great off-idle torque with only partial throttle input. I haven't driven a manual 3.6 JL, but I know that Jeep's DBW is tuned to be slightly 'muted' (probably for fuel economy reasons).

My other vehicle is a manual DBW with little low end torque, and after tuning the DBW curve drivability and slow speed control was greatly improved.
Interesting, so I guess the question is if the Pedal Commander would work well on this issue vs having a tune done. (tough to find a good tuner out in the middle of Montana). According to Pedal Commander, its little hardware device can help PDW curves better than simple tuning is able to. Thoughts?
 

AnnDee4444

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Interesting, so I guess the question is if the Pedal Commander would work well on this issue vs having a tune done. (tough to find a good tuner out in the middle of Montana). According to Pedal Commander, it's little hardware device can help PDW curvers better than simple tuning is able to. Thoughts?
I believe the Pedal Command could be removed with no trace it was ever installed, which could help with warranty work in the future. I'm not 100% sure that the DBW maps are editable in HPTuners, and you would have to be fairly tech-savvy to get good results. Hopefully someday there is an e-tune service (all over email), that would eliminate your location issue.

*Disclaimer: I don't have any experience with either product, or the manual 3.6
 

8flat

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I believe the Pedal Command could be removed with no trace it was ever installed, which could help with warranty work in the future. I'm not 100% sure that the DBW maps are editable in HPTuners, and you would have to be fairly tech-savvy to get good results. Hopefully someday there is an e-tune service (all over email), that would eliminate your location issue.

*Disclaimer: I don't have any experience with either product, or the manual 3.6
Good points. I just
I believe the Pedal Command could be removed with no trace it was ever installed, which could help with warranty work in the future. I'm not 100% sure that the DBW maps are editable in HPTuners, and you would have to be fairly tech-savvy to get good results. Hopefully someday there is an e-tune service (all over email), that would eliminate your location issue.

*Disclaimer: I don't have any experience with either product, or the manual 3.6
Good point. One thing I like about the PC is the little dongle you can rest in the center console and quickly change the settings on the fly.

Might be worth the $300 to give it a try. In theory it might help the rev hang also?
 

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8flat

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No, it won't change rev-hang. You would need a real tune to adjust that (HP Tuners, etc.)
Makes sense, due to where the unit is located just "upstream" of the throttle pedal itself. Any sense of how hard it would be to figure out DBW adjustments within HP Tuners on our own, and fix the rev hang also?
 

AnnDee4444

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Makes sense, due to where the unit is located just "upstream" of the throttle pedal itself. Any sense of how hard it would be to figure out DBW adjustments within HP Tuners on our own, and fix the rev hang also?
HPTuners has their own forum, you should try asking the question there. I would post a link, but I think it might be against the rules here.
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