Looking grim for Stellantis

[Whaler27]

Dodge dominated the law enforcement vehicle market for more than ten years. When the hemi-powered chargers arrived it was transformational. They were fast, handled amazingly well at speed, and withstood MUCH more abuse than the crown vics they replaced. The hemi-chargers got better and better as the platform evolved, with the last few years of production including AWD with amazing anti-skid technology. I had an early hemi then two AWD hemis. Zero problems in about 250,000 miles of abuse and thousands of hours of time idling. Then Stellantis stopped pairing the hemi and AWD. The six cylinder charger had nearly the same top speed, theoretically, but it took forever to get there, and it was nowhere near as durable/reliable, so we eventually switched to the Durango. Now the Hemi won’t be available on that platform either, and the six is a slug in the heavier Durango. Way too under-powered to be effective and safe on the interstate,

Stellantis is tone-deaf... Fuel efficient, occasionally functional, mini-cars may suffice as police vehicles in downtown Rome, because they’re never far from a tow, but the U.S. and Canada still need reliable, fast, enforcement vehicles that will function reliably in all weather conditions And traverse large expanses of nothing.

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[kah.mun.rah]

Are any car companies making their sales goals this quarter? IMO there are not too many people looking to buy a new car with interest rates high and inflation with one bag of groceries at +$100.

 

[Wbino]

Why shouldn’t we question employee costs? That is a huge part of the pricing problem. I guarantee you Jeeps are priced in accordance with the profitability analytics related to production. This doesn’t make the worker “bad”…just very expensive…more because of recent UAW contract negotiations. Candidly I believe these workers are overpaid and many will eventually be replaced by robotics and better production engineering. Huge pensions and legacy costs are coming home to roost.

What's a huge pension to you? and union workers salaries are negotiated.

 

[hemiblas]

Higher rates, higher pricing. I'm just upgrading my 2018s. I've always traded in at the 5 year mark, but not this time. I'm not sure how many people like me there are, but just seems like it has gotten out of control.

 

[TheRaven]

Higher rates, higher pricing. I'm just upgrading my 2018s. I've always traded in at the 5 year mark, but not this time. I'm not sure how many people like me there are, but just seems like it has gotten out of control.

I was an every-three-year trader before this round...but my wife and I agree that we are keeping this round of vehicles as long as they remain financially viable.

 

[dsgrey]

Higher rates, higher pricing. I'm just upgrading my 2018s. I've always traded in at the 5 year mark, but not this time. I'm not sure how many people like me there are, but just seems like it has gotten out of control.

Prior to having 3 kids, I kept mine a long time. When I began commuting long distance and my kids started reaching driving age and older, we seemed to switch vehicles every 4-6 years due to our used cars given/sold to the kids at least had a known history. Kids are gone, Jeep is 5+ years old but I plan to keep this one a long time.

 

[2nd 392]

Dodge dominated the law enforcement vehicle market for more than ten years. When the hemi-powered chargers arrived it was transformational. They were fast, handled amazingly well at speed, and withstood MUCH more abuse than the crown vics they replaced. The hemi-chargers got better and better as the platform evolved, with the last few years of production including AWD with amazing anti-skid technology. I had an early hemi then two AWD hemis. Zero problems in about 250,000 miles of abuse and thousands of hours of time idling. Then Stellantis stopped pairing the hemi and AWD. The six cylinder charger had nearly the same top speed, theoretically, but it took forever to get there, and it was nowhere near as durable/reliable, so we eventually switched to the Durango. Now the Hemi won’t be available on that platform either, and the six is a slug in the heavier Durango. Way too under-powered to be effective and safe on the interstate,

Stellantis is tone-deaf... Fuel efficient, occasionally functional, mini-cars may suffice as police vehicles in downtown Rome, because they’re never far from a tow, but the U.S. and Canada still need reliable, fast, enforcement vehicles that will function reliably in all weather conditions And traverse large expanses of nothing.

Heck- the old 440 interceptors could push a broke down big rig off the scales. An electrical short killed it, an officer ran out of the scale house, put it against the trailer and mashed it pushing me off and clearing the scales, cost the taxpayers a couple tires burned off in a cloud of smoke. Try that with a new Explorer, could be interesting.

 

[AcesandEights]

Dodge police vehicles are big piles of crap, as are the Fords. No one makes a quality vehicle that will last when they sit idling for long periods of time. Engines can't maintain lubrication that way. We're trying Chev/GM now and I expect them to be the same.

 

[58Willys]

https://moparinsiders.com/chrysler-heir-sends-proposal-to-stellantis-for-brands/

Didn’t see much about Jeep in the article but hopefully Chrysler/Dodge can be saved and brought back under US management.

I saw this earlier and was going to post it, but you beat me to it. Yes, very interesting that Jeep wasn’t mentioned. Although Jeep is a somewhat recent addition as compared to long history of Chrysler and Dodge.

 

[Windshieldfarmer]

What's a huge pension to you? and union workers salaries are negotiated.

Of course they are negotiated…usually under threat of strike and disruption. Obviously some on this board are pro union…I’m not one of them based on professional experience and observations. But everyone is entitled to their own perspective.

Regarding pensions…Im speaking to legacy pension costs from past negotiations that still burden the company…older workers.

 

[Atomic-Mouse]

I saw this earlier and was going to post it, but you beat me to it. Yes, very interesting that Jeep wasn’t mentioned. Although Jeep is a somewhat recent addition as compared to long history of Chrysler and Dodge.

Hopefully where Jeep has been using Chrysler and Hemi engines they will buy the entire lineup back, not to mention almost every Jeep part is stamped with the Mopar logo now.

 

[Whaler27]

Dodge police vehicles are big piles of crap, as are the Fords. No one makes a quality vehicle that will last when they sit idling for long periods of time. Engines can't maintain lubrication that way. We're trying Chev/GM now and I expect them to be the same.

My department bought about 80 to 120 Chargers per year for fifteen years or so. The Hemis were extremely durable, so we added 20,000 miles to the presumptive service life (up to 140,000 miles). They were generally in better shape at 140,000 miles than the Fords were at 120,000 — and our use ages vehicles in dog years.

Our mechanical failure rate on V8 Chargers was very low. The 6 cylinder Chargers have been more problematic, and a lot less satisfying to drive. As to the Explorers, well, our fleet mechanics called them “exploders”. Lots of transmission failures around 80,000 miles. The old Explorers were gutless too… The newer 400 hp explorers are rockets*. (Check out the Michigan State Police vehicle tests available online). Crown Vics had transmission problems too.

*Edit: I don’t mean to suggest my department will be going to the new Explorers… Reliability concerns, very small fuel tanks, and limited range prevent that. For now, my department is still building out the previously purchased V8 Durangos, which are stacked up like cord wood on nearby lots. We have quite a few Tahoes now too.. The Tahoes have been good, but they’re much more expensive. It’s hard to say what the future holds, but manufacturer interest in the enforcement market seems to ebb and flow. In the early 90s the chevy caprice was in wide use — perhaps the ugliest police vehicle ever built.

 

[Jimgolf1]

Higher rates, higher pricing. I'm just upgrading my 2018s. I've always traded in at the 5 year mark, but not this time. I'm not sure how many people like me there are, but just seems like it has gotten out of control.

I agree. I keep trying to figure out a way to make sense of upgrading from my '18 JLUR with 35k miles for the same new one but even at $10k-14k off MSRP, which would be around $54k-$58k plus tax. Mine seems just as capable as a '24 and even discounted I can't justify the extra $25k-$30k it would cost. I do like several new features on the '24's, just not enough for the premium cost.

 

[TheRaven]

I agree. I keep trying to figure out a way to make sense of upgrading from my '18 JLUR with 35k miles for the same new one but even at $10k-14k off MSRP, which would be around $54k-$58k plus tax. Mine seems just as capable as a '24 and even discounted I can't justify the extra $25k-$30k it would cost. I do like several new features on the '24's, just not enough for the premium cost.

Hang on to your '18 and use the "smart decision not to trade up" as an excuse to buy some upgrades. You can get the new grill painlessly for like $500-600, so you could LOOK like you got the new one...then also add some of those accessories you've been thinking about...cause hey, you just saved $25-30k by not trading up, right?

 

[AcesandEights]

We just bought Tahoes, so we'll see. Part of the reason was to see if it helps with officer injuries getting in and out of vehicles.

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