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Looking Grim(er) For Stellantis

Windshieldfarmer

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Other than freelancing legal stuff, I quit work at 53. My neighborhood consists of 43 homes, all are a million plus. Like me, most fled from California. There are people that work at Facebook, Google, Micron and several owners of fast food companies. I have zero doubt, I am the poorest.
You might have lower net income than many in your neighborhood but in all likelihood you have far more net worth than the “spend it all” crowd. IMHO debt should be avoided or quickly amortized unless it involves the purchase of earning assets…a personal residence is not an earning asset.
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IMHO debt should be avoided or quickly amortized unless it involves the purchase of earning assets…a personal residence is not an earning asset.
Absent market aberrations, residential real estate has indeed been an appreciating asset. Even said disturbances may not have the expected outcome, either. Post-pandemic house prices have continued to rise at an accelerated rate, despite collateral interest rate growth and inflationary pressure on personal income trends.

While not strictly an earning asset, in the form of generating, for example, quarterly dividend payments, real estate has and will continue to be used by a variety of folks to capture expected and oftentimes quite profitable returns. The historical record on the matter makes this M.O. plain.
 

GinaC

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Other than freelancing legal stuff, I quit work at 53. My neighborhood consists of 43 homes, all are a million plus. Like me, most fled from California. There are people that work at Facebook, Google, Micron and several owners of fast food companies. I have zero doubt, I am the poorest. About 4 month ago, the guy across the street, who moved in four months prior, placed his house up for sale. During a conversation, he told me he and his wife, a CEO of a California hospital, play the house flipping game and have flipped 5 houses in the past 4 years. I asked how he shields capital gains……the guy never heard of the 2 of the last 5 rule. After I described it, he almost fainted. The guy then told me they were building a 2.5 million dollar house on the water and he gave the builder $600k to start, but needed his house to close to complete the deal. Long story short, the house across the street had so many price reductions, he sold it underwater. When it was in escrow, I noticed his Mercedes, BMW and Porsche tuned into two Toyota‘s. I am positive it was because of debt to income ratios for the loan on the new house. Last week his new house was listed for sale. It has a tax lien……..probably due to the five houses he flipped. Now the guy is super bitter and blames “the system”. I’m guessing he is 45 years old, he will never recover.
Amen. My parents left me just enough of an inheritance to live modestly, since I can no longer work due to my fibromyalgia. It's not bad enough for me to get disability.

I paid cash for my 1200 sq ft house (including basement garage) in 2019, which is now worth twice the amount and I haven't even finished the rehabilitation yet. It was built in 1939 and I am slowly restoring it myself. And now I paid cash for my new Jeep, much to the dismay of the dealership. I'm by no means rich, but I have enough to live well and take care of myself as I get old. Zero debt and no fears besides the markets tanking due to the possibility of another Great Depression.

Folks get sucked into the buy buy buy bigger bigger bigger attitude and it's tragic.
 

blackwater

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Amen. My parents left me just enough of an inheritance to live modestly, since I can no longer work due to my fibromyalgia. It's not bad enough for me to get disability.

I paid cash for my 1200 sq ft house (including basement garage) in 2019, which is now worth twice the amount and I haven't even finished the rehabilitation yet. It was built in 1939 and I am slowly restoring it myself. And now I paid cash for my new Jeep, much to the dismay of the dealership. I'm by no means rich, but I have enough to live well and take care of myself as I get old. Zero debt and no fears besides the markets tanking due to the possibility of another Great Depression.

Folks get sucked into the buy buy buy bigger bigger bigger attitude and it's tragic.
I’m not a money genius by anyone’s standard, to me it’s common sense. I bought my house in 2019 as well. Interest rates were about 3% at the time, but I paid cash. Friends thought I was nuts. If I financed they felt I could make more money on interest than I would pay on the loan. They did not realize, if a person earns 5% on 500k, dependent upon tax bracket, they are required to pay 28% of that 5% in taxes. Most also fail to comprehend the interest on all consumer loans is amortized at the beginning and not spread equally throughout the term. Plus it would have cost me $25k in fees to get financing for the loan. Then the interest I earned would have placed me in a higher tax bracket. Yes loan interest is deductible, but in my bracket I would see five cents for every dollar I paid in interest. Because loan interest is amortized at the beginning, after about 5 years, the deduction would disappear. Think about Social Security, people pay into it forever then collect 2-3k per month for a few years before they die. Conversely if they dollar cost averaged the money paid into Social Security and put it into an index fund, after 30 years they could pay cash for 10000 Jeeps. The system Is not set up for intelligent people and loan companies make money off of idiots.
 

blackwater

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Absent market aberrations, residential real estate has indeed been an appreciating asset. Even said disturbances may not have the expected outcome, either. Post-pandemic house prices have continued to rise at an accelerated rate, despite collateral interest rate growth and inflationary pressure on personal income trends.

While not strictly an earning asset, in the form of generating, for example, quarterly dividend payments, real estate has and will continue to be used by a variety of folks to capture expected and oftentimes quite profitable returns. The historical record on the matter makes this M.O. plain.
Maybe over the long term, RE can be a nice investment, but everyone needs a place to live. I hate when people say, “can you believe our homes are worth” this. My response is always, sell it and move to Mississippi. A married couple can capture $500k tax free, but unless downsizing or moving to places like Mississippi, it’s a moot point. Now if they die, their kids will get a stepped up basis and that is profit heavy. I refer specifically to owner occupied homes, investment properties can be 10-31 exchanged, which is another ball game, but from personal experience investment properties can be a pain in the ass. However, RE is how most Americans “build wealth”, …….by inheritance.
 

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Windshieldfarmer

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Absent market aberrations, residential real estate has indeed been an appreciating asset. Even said disturbances may not have the expected outcome, either. Post-pandemic house prices have continued to rise at an accelerated rate, despite collateral interest rate growth and inflationary pressure on personal income trends.

While not strictly an earning asset, in the form of generating, for example, quarterly dividend payments, real estate has and will continue to be used by a variety of folks to capture expected and oftentimes quite profitable returns. The historical record on the matter makes this M.O. plain.
We all need a place to live and purchasing rather than renting is usually the best option. That said way too many people over extend when purchasing a home leaving very little disposable other investments. In many cases they become house poor as taxes, renovation costs, and insurance increase, taking more and more if their disposable income. Home appreciation is a good thing but it doesn’t generate cash flow. What worked well for me was purchasing my primary residence at a price well below what I could afford, leaving room to buy rentals and other types of cash generating investments , letting lessees buy these properties for me with their rent payments.
 

GinaC

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I’m not a money genius by anyone’s standard, to me it’s common sense. I bought my house in 2019 as well. Interest rates were about 3% at the time, but I paid cash. Friends thought I was nuts. If I financed they felt I could make more money on interest than I would pay on the loan. They did not realize, if a person earns 5% on 500k, dependent upon tax bracket, they are required to pay 28% of that 5% in taxes. Most also fail to comprehend the interest on all consumer loans is amortized at the beginning and not spread equally throughout the term. Plus it would have cost me $25k in fees to get financing for the loan. Then the interest I earned would have placed me in a higher tax bracket. Yes loan interest is deductible, but in my bracket I would see five cents for every dollar I paid in interest. Because loan interest is amortized at the beginning, after about 5 years, the deduction would disappear. Think about Social Security, people pay into it forever then collect 2-3k per month for a few years before they die. Conversely if they dollar cost averaged the money paid into Social Security and put it into an index fund, after 30 years they could pay cash for 10000 Jeeps. The system Is not set up for intelligent people and loan companies make money off of idiots.
And I bet your credit rating is perfect, just like mine. I use my credit card for all purchases and then pay off the full amount at the end of every month.
 

blackwater

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We all need a place to live and purchasing rather than renting is usually the best option. That said way too many people over extend when purchasing a home leaving very little disposable other investments. In many cases they become house poor as taxes, renovation costs, and insurance increase, taking more and more if their disposable income. Home appreciation is a good thing but it doesn’t generate cash flow. What worked well for me was purchasing my primary residence at a price well below what I could afford, leaving room to buy rentals and other types of cash generating investments , letting lessees buy these properties for me with their rent payments.
You’re lucky you live in Kansas. States like California have rent control and other restrictions on property owners. I liquidated my California rentals and fled to Idaho. However, because other Californians did the same thing, Boise is copying California, imposing even some worse restrictions. I sold those properties and took the tax hit. Others are doing the same, which will just cause rents to skyrocket……supply/demand, the policies are counterproductive. You’re correct, a home is a money pit. My insurance doubled this year and next weekend I pay someone $900 to stain my fence, just to name a few.
 

blackwater

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And I bet your credit rating is perfect, just like mine. I use my credit card for all purchases and then pay off the full amount at the end of every month.
843 FICO, but it doesn’t mean squat, I never obtain loans. I buy everything on a card.…..when I’m not charged a fee. Wells Fargo to be exact, 2% cash back, all purchases, no limit. Just off the top of head, I get about 10k back , tax free annually. The downside, my card number is compromised frequently, which is a pain
 

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Windshieldfarmer

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You’re lucky you live in Kansas. States like California have rent control and other restrictions on property owners. I liquidated my California rentals and fled to Idaho. However, because other Californians did the same thing, Boise is copying California, imposing even some worse restrictions. I sold those properties and took the tax hit. Others are doing the same, which will just cause rents to skyrocket……supply/demand, the policies are counterproductive. You’re correct, a home is a money pit. My insurance doubled this year and next weekend I pay someone $900 to stain my fence, just to name a few.
California…not business friendly these days. Long term, rent control is a disaster that snowballs into a bigger problem…because builder/investors won’t add units to the rental pool…and rental owners, as you stated, just sell out and invest elsewhere, further squeezing availability. Yes…my investments in Kansas have been good to me….
 

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Jeep and Dodge as having a 4 month supply on dealer lots compared to industry average of 68 days...analysts have blamed Stellantis’s bloated stocks on higher prices and fewer promotions than from rivals."
Going back to OP initial post.
Really?? 34,000+ Wranglers available?
Jeep Wrangler JL Looking Grim(er) For Stellantis zzzj
 

Ol’ Timey Manual SWB Guy

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This thread, while certainly amusing, has sorta lost the plot now. Back to the Stellantis-focused question: four-figure charges (each) to get an automatic transmission, a basic six-banger, half doors, 4H Auto, the SOT, a meaningful warranty?

How about no? That’s the problem.

The problem isn’t people’s income; it’s whether people will spend it thus.

A plain Subaru Outback can do MOST of what my JL can do in New England, at a third the cost.

The smiles-per-miles premium is very high right now for Jeep.

It’d go a long way if (like Hyundai) they’d unsuckify the OEM warranty. 6/60 bumper-to-bumper would be a good start.
 

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I have a question, the people complaining about Jeep prices, where have you been? It is called inflation. I paid $3 for an avocado today and it was on sale. I like avocados so I bought it. Even if dealerships offer 0% financing, because prices are so high, many people will still be faced with a huge payment. As I mentioned previously, car manufacturers cannot sell vehicles at a loss. It is not about price gouging, it’s about survival. Below are some numbers I copied and pasted from a WSJ article.

INFLATION BY THE NUMBERS THE LAST THREE YEARS
1. Groceries +34%
2. Rent +24%
3. Automobiles +21%
4. Gasoline +27%
5. Alcohol +8%
6. Transportation +37%
7. Housing +25%
8. LPG +14%
9. Healthcare +30%
10. Natural gas +36%
11. Real income -3%

Not included in the list are parts necessary to build a vehicle, tires, transmission, nuts, bolts, wire, aluminum, all of which must be transported to the factory for assembly. Prices are directly related to inflation, if a person can’t buy a Wrangler they will be forced to buy a Yugo. Just like a house, if you can’t afford Newport Beach, you will be forced to live in timbuktu.
Where could I find a good deal on a used Yugo sense they haven’t made any in 30+ years:)
 
 







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