Looking for performance upgrades.

[WXman]

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/wg3b6r9/

Maintaining the proper exhaust velocity is what's important. If you open the pipe up too much you can reduce velocity. Inversely, Pipes that narrow or bend dramatically as we are talking about also reduce velocity.

Yeah, Motor Trend does a show called Engine Masters. Recently, they did testing in a controlled environment and showed how exhaust alone can make significant changes in power output. Muffler type, pipe sizing, etc. all makes a difference. And the old myth that "you need back pressure" is just that...a myth. Engines want to breathe. The more air you're exhausting, the better.

It's just like a garden hose. If you pinch the hose with your fingers what happens to the flow coming out the end?

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[Biscuit]

And that matters because?

Nobody here ever mentioned RPMs, but just for the record the gains from exhaust changes are documented to occur from about 2,500 RPM and up, which is a powerband almost everybody sees every day. You can get good mid-range power from bolt-on modifications, which is the subject of this thread. It's been documented on dynos across many vehicle platforms, some of which I've shown myself. On my car, I saw 40 HP and 50 lbs/ft of torque increase with a CAI, matching throttle body, exhaust, and a good high octane tune.

I think if you don't have useful information to share, it's time to sit on the bench for this one.

Fact: Virtually all of the peak torque and horsepower values cited in both stock and modified configurations occur at engine rpms ranging from about 4200 rpm to the engine's red line. Those are not power bands that "almost everybody sees every day."

In stock form on a dyno, the current Jeep 3.6L produces 178.3 hp at 4630 rpm. It peaks at 225 hp at 6000-6200 rpm. Torque hits the ceiling with 201.5 lb-ft at 4245 rpm and begins dropping off at 5200 rpm. (Source: https://www.knfilters.com/dynocharts/63-1576_dyno.pdf)

The various manufacturers of CAIs and exhaust systems who claim torque and horsepower gains do so in the same power bands.

 

[MDG]

Fact: Virtually all of the peak torque and horsepower values cited in both stock and modified configurations occur at engine rpms ranging from about 4200 rpm to the engine's red line. Those are not power bands that "almost everybody sees every day."

In stock form on a dyno, the current Jeep 3.6L produces 178.3 hp at 4630 rpm. It peaks at 225 hp at 6000-6200 rpm. Torque hits the ceiling with 201.5 lb-ft at 4245 rpm and begins dropping off at 5200 rpm. (Source: https://www.knfilters.com/dynocharts/63-1576_dyno.pdf)

The various manufacturers of CAIs and exhaust systems who claim torque and horsepower gains do so in the same power bands.

Agree that the peak result is above normal operation RPM however there are gains to be had in the operating range (1,750 to 2,750) as shown in this dyno chart.

https://afepower.com/media/catalog/product/files/pdpfiles/4/9/49-48065_dc.1532128757.jpg

For this exhaust: https://afepower.com/afe-power-49-4...2-409-stainless-steel-cat-back-exhaust-system

It is a balance and you do need to look at what you want from your setup and to make sure the money you spend is getting you results aligned with those goals.

 

[Biscuit]

Agree that the peak result is above normal operation RPM however there are gains to be had in the operating range (1,750 to 2,750) . . .

It is a balance and you do need to look at what you want from your setup and to make sure the money you spend is getting you results aligned with those goals.

I agree, but in most cases, the gains are pretty modest at best, and they don't come cheap ($300-$400-plus each for aftermarket CAI, exhaust and chip/programmer). Been there, done that on previously owned vehicles, including a Pentastar-powered Charger, three Harleys and an F250 Powerstroke 4x4.

It was a waste of money on the Charger but well worth it on the F250 and one of the Harleys, but the Harley included new cams along with a carb re-jet, intake and exhaust.

 

[NFRs2000NYC]

And that matters because?

Nobody here ever mentioned RPMs, but just for the record the gains from exhaust changes are documented to occur from about 2,500 RPM and up, which is a powerband almost everybody sees every day. You can get good mid-range power from bolt-on modifications, which is the subject of this thread. It's been documented on dynos across many vehicle platforms, some of which I've shown myself. On my car, I saw 40 HP and 50 lbs/ft of torque increase with a CAI, matching throttle body, exhaust, and a good high octane tune.

I think if you don't have useful information to share, it's time to sit on the bench for this one.

You can sell that BS to someone else, but I've been building my own cars for damn near 20 years now, most of it aftermarket forced induction....and unless you are talking about a turboed/blown vehicle, or a turbo diesel, you are not getting anywhere NEAR those numbers with bolt on garbage.

 

[Bearded_Dragon]

You can sell that BS to someone else, but I've been building my own cars for damn near 20 years now, most of it aftermarket forced induction....and unless you are talking about a turboed/blown vehicle, or a turbo diesel, you are not getting anywhere NEAR those numbers with bolt on garbage.

For a 3.6L, hell no you won't see anywhere near 40hp 50tq increase from bolt-ons. Get into the LS world and yes, you'll see those numbers.

 

[millerjl]

For the OP, I did contact customer care about any possible warranty issues with the mopar CAI. They sent me the following:

To get the information that you're looking for, you're best option would
be to contact Mopar Performance Parts. They can be contacted at
1-888-528-HEMI (4364) and are available 8:00 AM ? 8:00 PM Monday to
Friday and 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM on Saturday.

So, I called and they told me "as long as it is a mopar part, it will not impact your factory warranty". I posted the number so anyone can call.

 

[NFRs2000NYC]

Complete BS. Hope you dont have to find out the hard way. Again, there is no need to reinvent the wheel. There are plenty of cases with FCA denying warranty claims as a result of damage (water ingestion) from the CAI.

 

[SouthTexasJLU]

Not worth the money. You want HP/TQ gains then LS swap it, or throw some gears in it. Don't forget the lockers....

 

[Biscuit]

For the OP, I did contact customer care about any possible warranty issues with the mopar CAI. They sent me the following:

To get the information that you're looking for, you're best option would
be to contact Mopar Performance Parts. They can be contacted at
1-888-528-HEMI (4364) and are available 8:00 AM ? 8:00 PM Monday to
Friday and 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM on Saturday.

So, I called and they told me "as long as it is a mopar part, it will not impact your factory warranty". I posted the number so anyone can call.

And they lied. The Moss-Magnuson Act does protect you from predatory practices like this by the OEM. However, it doesn't give you carte blanche to perform modifications and use aftermarket parts to your heart's content.

Be informed and read the actual law.

 

[gspfunk]

The Challenger version is rated 305 HP and basically the exhaust and tune are the only key differences.

Except cam profile. That alone will easily cover the discrepancy.

WXMAN basically answered this. They don't make any decent power down low, and draw power and create heat, the opposite of what you want on a trail rig. If you're building a baja runner Jeep, sure, but for offroading/overlanding/crawling, it is competely useless.....and IF you decide to give it the beans on an obstacle, you increase your chances of snapping ujoints, shearing ring gears, killing drive shafts, etc 10 fold. As someone that's always have sports cars with aftermarket forced induction (and still do,) the Wrangler is just a terrible application for a blower. A small turbo however that gives full spool at say 2000rpm however, is fantastic.....if it can do it reliably.

That first part doesn’t make sense. Turbo’s generate way more heat (exhaust), hence why they have intercoolers and are usually insulated. Otherwise the high air temp kills power and you get massive heat soak.

Also, super chargers these days (centrifugal/roots) function about the same as a turbo and create great TQ down low.

I’m not countering your point and saying they WOULD work for a trail. I agree with the assessment that gears are the go-to to prevent snapping parts.

 

[NFRs2000NYC]

Sure turbos make heat, but they can still be set up reliably to handle said heat. Centrifugal superchargers are the ones that require being revved, and dont make any real power down low...which is a good thing for say a racecar that doesn't want sudden onset of power and wants nice, linear curves at the track. A roots style blower is indeed capable of producing power lower in the RPM (still not at turbo levels) but robs power to drive it...which is why it usually works well only in large motor applications (think 5.7s, 6.4s, etc.) Its just a really inefficient setup for a trail rig......unless you're building a desert pre-runner.

 

[richk225]

A lot of good points brought up here. My last JK had a Ripp Supercharger on it, huge difference bot at low rpm and high rpm. The only thing that made it even better was putting a High Altitude pulls set on it, it made a big difference from the standard pulley set up.
I never put it on a dyno to see what the numbers were, the numbers didn’t matter to me. It’s not like putting on a CAI and exhaust, some people notice the difference and others don’t. You definitely notice the difference with the supercharger. Parasitic loss is there but did I notice a loss to it? No, most likely because there was such a increase in power
The only thing that made it even better was putting a High Altitude pulley set on it, it made a big difference from the standard pulley set up, and you could feel that.
I kept the stock exhaust on, I know it would have been best to open it up, but boy did it surprise a lot of people. I was running 3:73 gears with a locker and 35 BFG KO2`s. Granted it was a lot of money but well worth it. It was either that or another motorcycle but the wife nixed that idea after going through all the horrors that she had to put up with when a car ran a stop sign and T boned me and darn near took my life. I feel a little bit safer with the top and doors off, not quite the wind in my hair feeling and freedom felt on a bike, at least I don’t have to put my feet down every time I stop

 

[gspfunk]

You can sell that BS to someone else, but I've been building my own cars for damn near 20 years now, most of it aftermarket forced induction....and unless you are talking about a turboed/blown vehicle, or a turbo diesel, you are not getting anywhere NEAR those numbers with bolt on garbage.

I'd say it depends on the platform. My TBSS picked up 30+ AWHP (dyno proven - I'd have to go find the graphs to be specific) w/ HP Tuners, CAI, and 3" exhaust. Granted, they are extremely bottlenecked from the factory, but LS motors almost always love even the slightest mods.

If WXMAN was talking about flywheel HP or even those mods on an OEM blown/turbo vehicle, it is entirely possible and not uncommon. On a JK or JL....? No way in hell

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