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LifePo4 waiting game

YBABRAT

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I will be replacing my battery sooner than later. I had searched high and low for a good LifePo4 replacement that meets my needs. There are a few but, there will be more in a few years time.

My only issues is the useless jump start reserve that many are pushing as a bonus. IMO, LifePo4 does not need such a thing. Anyway there are some things that irritate me about lack of battery specs from the many manufacturers.

I have come to a rule of thumb with LifePo4 batteries... look for dual purpose battery or start / deep cycle type. If not given in the battery info, look at CCA and AH. If a LifePo4 battery lists a CCA above 1000. Most likely it can deliver start current for winching without tripping current limiting protection. As for AH, almost all 80AH and higher don't supply high current well enough for winching or are limited to small engines. Jeepers seem to want high current and high high capacity, which goes back to why place a reserve capacity for jump starts? Just a thought, no burning question about it. Prolly is that you are enabling a circuit to allow high current discharge for producing its advertized CCA. So lifting the hood will be required to winch. Not a problem unless it's impossible to move to both sides to unlatch without risking injury. Well, maybe about sure footedness?

So my quandary is how the protection circuit is designed. Some report 1% a month internal depletion to 1% a year. Usually the ones lacking good CCA have the lower internal depletion. Seems like having a jump start feature allows for a lower internal depletion rate. Only a few offer Bluetooth remote jump start activation.

There is one Chinese brand that boasts dual purpose and is cost effective, but it seems to be only in one type of case format, which has reversed posts. Redoing a JL battery wiring for a different case is not what most would do. But it would have been nice to give it a try, as the reviews seemed good from US buyers.

But then again going for cost savings... you will find many require a DC to DC LifePo4 charger to be installed to your charging system.

So far only 3 LifePo4 batteries will fit my needs, yet $$$$$ and the jump start feature I am trying to ignore makes me want to wait it out for better options in the near future.

The closer I get to need of replacement the more I am being pushed to AGM. There is no perfect LifePo4 battery as a drop in replacement for a Jeepers needs.

Just remembered.... I posted a link some time ago, about two good drop in LifePo4 battery options. One is for below zero use. Rather have a heated battery than a hardly ever used jump start reserve.

Well only time will tell which direction I go.. Tick tock, tick tock, tick tock...
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Ratbert

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You seem to be listing lots of concerns about using LiFePO4 as a primary battery without giving many benefits. Maybe weight is a massive concern?
 

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What about your charging system? Is it conducive/compatible for Lithium batteries?
 

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I’ve only used the adequate stock battery, in spite of multiple winch jobs with my 12,000lb winch. The first stock battery lasted precisely three years; I’m now on my second.

I leave my engine running at idle when I winch. I have the stock 220 amp alternator, and the stock 650 amp AGM battery. The winch is the Badland Apex.

Here are the rough specs, minus line wraps on the drum, for amperage/pull weight:

166 amps @ 3000 lb Line Pull
259 amps @ 6000 lb Line Pull
349 amps @ 9000 lb Line Pull
448 amps @ 12000 lb Line Pull

I have maxed-out some of my pulls at 12000lb. I have never had the winch shut down due to overheating or lack of current. The winch is direct-wired (with a cutoff switch when not using it) to the battery - no electronic enhancements to my system.
 

VKSheridan

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LifePo4 rocks as an off-grid power source. Got 800 Ah in my RV to power that critter through the night (and then some). They have a serious punch only limited by the BMS, they recharge at 150+ amps, don’t gas and are the cat’s meow.

That said, my BMS inhibits electron flow when it’s cold out. I don’t know of any that don’t but a unicorn might exist. Might be an issue if you live in cold country, even with a battery heater.

LifePo4 has a different charge profile than AGM. I’ve heard it can deny up to 15% off maximum charge. Meaning they’ll only see 85% charge due to the regulator seeing desired FLA voltage versus the higher LifePo4 voltage your battery will want.

Lastly, engine compartment heat could be an issue, not sure. The BMS will also limit electron flow if the internal temperature gets too high.

What have you found on these? You’ve pinged my curiosity…..LOL
 

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Heimkehr

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What about your charging system? Is it conducive/compatible for Lithium batteries?
I'm reminded of a comment made by the Parts Manager at my dealership, a fellow I genuinely trust: He stressed that no matter the size of the battery I installed in my JLU (H6 or H7), it must be AGM only.

With that in mind, I already know where I'll be buying the Interstate H7 replacement, when the original H6 departs this Vale of Tears.

Related:
I've avoided replacing the lead acid batteries in my motorcycles with LiFePO4 equivalents, (where the collateral weight savings would matter) because of the compromises that I'm not willing to take on...the primary one being that particular chemistry's documented issues with low temperatures. As I'm a year-round rider, having to faff about with "waking up" a lithium battery before it's even able to crank a modest air-cooled engine isn't worth the trouble. I've won't even mention the parochial charging requirements, either.
 

JEEP4U

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You would also need a compatible charging system
 

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LifePo4 rocks as an off-grid power source. Got 800 Ah in my RV to power that critter through the night (and then some). They have a serious punch only limited by the BMS, they recharge at 150+ amps, don’t gas and are the cat’s meow.

That said, my BMS inhibits electron flow when it’s cold out. I don’t know of any that don’t but a unicorn might exist. Might be an issue if you live in cold country, even with a battery heater.

LifePo4 has a different charge profile than AGM. I’ve heard it can deny up to 15% off maximum charge. Meaning they’ll only see 85% charge due to the regulator seeing desired FLA voltage versus the higher LifePo4 voltage your battery will want.

Lastly, engine compartment heat could be an issue, not sure. The BMS will also limit electron flow if the internal temperature gets too high.

What have you found on these? You’ve pinged my curiosity…..LOL
Yes, LiFePO4 is exceptional for lots of use cases. I'm not sure, however, that it's a great fit for a starter battery, especially in a vehicle where weight is rarely a consideration.
 

rivercrossing

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GATORB8

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I've got 300 Ah of Lifepo4 in the camper, but I don't think I'd run one as a starter unless I had money burning a hole in my pocket.

If you are looking for house battery capability, I'd add it, not try to blend it with starting.
 

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YBABRAT

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Gosh so many replied... I'll try and answer to all without quoting all.

Yes I am aware of many LifePo4 batteries require a DC to DC power charger. There are a few available that are direct plug and play and will charge with any car with a 12v system. That is one reason why they are 3x the price.

Trimming down weight is always good... but my concern was longevity. Nothing at this time beats LifePo4.

My biggest gripe is to obtain maximum current you must switch on the built-in jump start reserve. It's OK but you must open the hood. There are two at this moment that offer remote jump start enable. Which is ok. I am bending to a self heating battery, but I had lost my link. I swear I posted a link about such battery when questioned about installing a LifePo4 in an older thread. Searched high and low and cannot find the site. Dakota is to release a battery made for off readers and picture a Bronco. It is the latest variant of LifePo4 tech. Supposedly enhanced and direct replacement to Acid Cell and AGM.

The Chinese battery I found has dual BMS working in random automatically. No need to hit the jump start button on the battery as it has none.
 
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YBABRAT

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LiFePO4 has some new competition Sodium Ion Batteries are the new thing.

https://www.amazon.com/YICHENLFP-Battery-Balancer-Starting-Cranking/dp/B0D1KD96N8
12V 100Ah Sodium Ion Battery CCA2000 with Active Balancer for CAR Starting, Marine

Less fire danger compared to lithium, longer lifespan, more cycles of charging. Not that I have one yet, they are just coming on the market.
Thanks! I will look into it... since it is new, I imagine batttery case limitations. Seems like group 31/24 is popular. H7 and 94R are harder to find. Thus my concern in rewiring the battery cables. I prefer the positive cable up front. But we have it in the back.
 

Vanburi

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Need more research on the sodium ion front. That link showed a 90 degree max temp but, no units(F or C).
 

Ratbert

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Need more research on the sodium ion front. That link showed a 90 degree max temp but, no units(F or C).
Yeah, -40 to 90 temperature units?

It's also by a company that's basically random letters tossed together: YICHENLFP.
 

Wabujitsu

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Need more research on the sodium ion front. That link showed a 90 degree max temp but, no units(F or C).
The temps in the Amazon description are all in degrees Celsius.
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