Jeep snobbery - RANT

[cosmokenney]

we get lectured by Rubicon owners who never even take their Jeeps off-road.

Yup. I own a Rubicon 2 door. And I've been told I don't need the Rubcon. "It's a rock crawler". "Rubicons are only for hard-core off-road".
Well, I can tell you that when I pulled off a dirt road yesterday to park I was facing slightly downhill. This was in the Lake Tahoe area. When I got back from my hike and started to pull out the wheels spun. I popped her in 4H and was out. And I can't tell you how many times I have gotten out of muddy holes with my lockers. Or used 4-low to pull me through the snow. Worth every penny. And even though I don't use it for crawling, no one will ever convince me otherwise.

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[Dadawada]

On my 6th or 7th Jeep. Never seen what the OP is talking about. You have snobs in all groups. Surround yourself with better people...ignore the rest...

 

[Boatmaan]

This is going to ruffle some feathers, but here it goes nonetheless.

I have owned 9 Wranglers over a 12-year period; a mix of Saharas and Rubicons, 2-doors and 4-doors, soft tops and hardtops, manuals and automatics. I have taken them to the beach, to the mountains, to the desert, to work, to the mall and to National Parks. I have driven them in snow, in the rain, over ice, rocks and sand dunes; in July 120 degrees in Death Valley and in -25 degrees in January in Colorado.

Eight of those Wranglers were JKs. My first one was a 2008 2-door Sahara I bought used: it was a base with a 6-speed manual and a soft top, but I was hooked. At one time I owned two of them side-by-side: one was a 2-door Rubicon for the trails; the other was a 4-door Sahara for long road trips in winter. What I have always loved about Wranglers is that I can pack and go at any time, any time of year, without concern for the terrain or the weather; I just know my Jeep will get me there and back.

My last JK was a top-of-the-line 2018 JKUR Recon. It was the most expensive Wrangler I ever bought but it was a disappointment: the assembly quality was terrible; it rattled and squeaked; the body panels were grossly misaligned; the ride was harsh. To make matters worse, my local dealer was a total dickhead with the warranty. Hardly what you expect from a $52,000 price tag —even after having owned several JKs before. In hindsight, it was a mistake buying that last Rubicon.

When I shopped for a JL I test drove a dozen of them; a mix of Rubicons and Saharas, 2-doors and 4-doors; manual and automatic. I had relocated from California to Washington so I found myself doing less extreme off-roading, but more extreme weather. The availability of Selec-Trac was more appealing than a swaybar disconnect or lockers; and after the harsh ride on that JK Recon, comfort grew in importance.

I found a sweet deal on an unsold 2018 Sahara sitting 1,000 miles away. I picked it up a year ago: the Selec-Trac is just awesome in the snow; the drive and ride is refined and comfortable; it can tackle the off-road trails around here with ease; the fit-and-finish is excellent, and it’s been totally trouble-free so far. I am tickled happy with it.

However, I find something’s fundamentally changed with the advent of JL. Perhaps the new prices make JLs too “precious.” Or JL is attracting a greater number of first-time buyers who don’t know the Wrangler “code” yet. Or FCA has gone overboard and turned Wrangler into a status symbol. Whatever the reason, I find it is now common to be looked down upon for not driving the “right” type of Wrangler. I now feel I have to justify why I drive a Sahara, something I never had to before. Some may not realize this, but Sahara owners regularly get accused of being poor drivers, bad off-roaders, mall crawlers, even poseurs, all because we drive a Sahara. Ironically, half the time we get lectured by Rubicon owners who never even take their Jeeps off-road. I try not to be oversensitive to it, but it is just weird.

Do Sport owners get this too?

One of the nice things of being part of the Jeep community was the feeling of close camaraderie, no matter what Wrangler you drove. I never felt I had to justify why I drove a Sahara, or whatever. A Wrangler was a Wrangler and that was that.

Feel free to reply, agree, disagree, joke, flame, share your hypothesis, but please let’s keep it civil.

Hmm......well, I am 74. I just bought my first Jeep. I looked at Lincolns, Infinitys, the new SUV models from Korea, and all the U.S, SUV's as well. Nothing got me excited enough to buy it. One day my neighbors son, about 40 yrs old, came to visit across the street and pulled up in an all white Jeep Sahara. WOW! great looking truck! After questioning him, and looking it all over, I began my Jeep quest. I bought an all white Sahara, nicely loaded with the Sky Top. I am loving it! Even my wife likes it (f'n amazing). Why Jeep? Why not.......beside it being the one and only SUV that holds its value better than anything on the road, it's just plain fun to drive. I looked at the Rubicon, and nixed it b/c I will never be off into the woods and climbing rocks. Beach.....yes......snow......sure......tow my boats.....uh-huh. Oh.....my grand kids love it as well. So do my kids.......and my neighbors....and friends.......just about everyone. Rubicon snob? I don't think so.....and if that becomes a problem,, easily solved by stopping at the local sign shop and having them make me a decal like the Rubicon.......except it will say..........."Robicon" as my first name is Robert!

 

[entropy]

Yup. I own a Rubicon 2 door. And I've been told I don't need the Rubcon. "It's a rock crawler". "Rubicons are only for hard-core off-road".
Well, I can tell you that when I pulled off a dirt road yesterday to park I was facing slightly downhill. This was in the Lake Tahoe area. When I got back from my hike and started to pull out the wheels spun. I popped her in 4H and was out. And I can't tell you how many times I have gotten out of muddy holes with my lockers. Or used 4-low to pull me through the snow. Worth every penny. And even though I don't use it for crawling, no one will ever convince me otherwise.

And this really apply to all Wranglers, having solid axles, 4lo, BLD, lockers or LSD, disconnecteable sway bar, easy to install metal bumpers armor and winch.

I got my Jeep initially for family adventure trips and to get me to remote areas for hunting. I did eventually get into off roading, leaving in southern ca with a Wrangler and not getting into off roading is hard.

Wranglers are not just crawlers, they are very versatile off roaders in every sense. Specially the Rubicon.

 

[aldo98229]

Hmm......well, I am 74. I just bought my first Jeep. I looked at Lincolns, Infinitys, the new SUV models from Korea, and all the U.S, SUV's as well. Nothing got me excited enough to buy it. One day my neighbors son, about 40 yrs old, came to visit across the street and pulled up in an all white Jeep Sahara. WOW! great looking truck! After questioning him, and looking it all over, I began my Jeep quest. I bought an all white Sahara, nicely loaded with the Sky Top. I am loving it! Even my wife likes it (f'n amazing). Why Jeep? Why not.......beside it being the one and only SUV that holds its value better than anything on the road, it's just plain fun to drive. I looked at the Rubicon, and nixed it b/c I will never be off into the woods and climbing rocks. Beach.....yes......snow......sure......tow my boats.....uh-huh. Oh.....my grand kids love it as well. So do my kids.......and my neighbors....and friends.......just about everyone. Rubicon snob? I don't think so.....and if that becomes a problem,, easily solved by stopping at the local sign shop and having them make me a decal like the Rubicon.......except it will say..........."Robicon" as my first name is Robert!

Congratulations and welcome to the forum!

 

[MMJPV]

I just got a JL and have been throwing it down any trail I find... I kinda get this vibe from people with mall crawlers but it's rare. The offroad jeep group I'm in is so inclusive that they even bring invite land rovers, Tacomas etc in. All I really notice is how friendly jeepers are. I think jeep is trying to cater to a broader market now so once you cast a wider net, you're bound to get some riff raff but who cares? They'll never experience Moab or whatever other off-the-beaten-path beauty we get to see

 

[Kurt0]

goodness. when i responded, all i read was the op’s post. Reading just the last page and a half reminded me why I havent been on forums for years.

what a bunch of grade a douche baggery.

as to the thread, ive gotten a little grief for being a stock gladiator, or “why did you get the mojave and not the rubicon” etc. i dont really care. I got it because it best fit my needs, and you can do damn near everything you want on 33’s and 35’s fit stock. the vast majority of people with jeeps over lift and over tire them. Dont get me wrong, do your thing, but when i see a bro-lifted jeep on 40’s my first thoughts are that the driver likely has no idea what theyre doing. Money spent on 6” of lift and 37-40” tires is better spent on a driving course or two.

 

[DaltonGang]

This thread started out as a "Whine Fest", and has deteriorated into a lot of hostility, and anger. People need to just push the ignore button, on this thread, and go to something more educational, and uplifting.

 

[NCIC105]

This is going to ruffle some feathers, but here it goes nonetheless.

I have owned 9 Wranglers over a 12-year period; a mix of Saharas and Rubicons, 2-doors and 4-doors, soft tops and hardtops, manuals and automatics. I have taken them to the beach, to the mountains, to the desert, to work, to the mall and to National Parks. I have driven them in snow, in the rain, over ice, rocks and sand dunes; in July 120 degrees in Death Valley and in -25 degrees in January in Colorado.

Eight of those Wranglers were JKs. My first one was a 2008 2-door Sahara I bought used: it was a base with a 6-speed manual and a soft top, but I was hooked. At one time I owned two of them side-by-side: one was a 2-door Rubicon for the trails; the other was a 4-door Sahara for long road trips in winter. What I have always loved about Wranglers is that I can pack and go at any time, any time of year, without concern for the terrain or the weather; I just know my Jeep will get me there and back.

My last JK was a top-of-the-line 2018 JKUR Recon. It was the most expensive Wrangler I ever bought but it was a disappointment: the assembly quality was terrible; it rattled and squeaked; the body panels were grossly misaligned; the ride was harsh. To make matters worse, my local dealer was a total dickhead with the warranty. Hardly what you expect from a $52,000 price tag —even after having owned several JKs before. In hindsight, it was a mistake buying that last Rubicon.

When I shopped for a JL I test drove a dozen of them; a mix of Rubicons and Saharas, 2-doors and 4-doors; manual and automatic. I had relocated from California to Washington so I found myself doing less extreme off-roading, but more extreme weather. The availability of Selec-Trac was more appealing than a swaybar disconnect or lockers; and after the harsh ride on that JK Recon, comfort grew in importance.

I found a sweet deal on an unsold 2018 Sahara sitting 1,000 miles away. I picked it up a year ago: the Selec-Trac is just awesome in the snow; the drive and ride is refined and comfortable; it can tackle the off-road trails around here with ease; the fit-and-finish is excellent, and it’s been totally trouble-free so far. I am tickled happy with it.

However, I find something’s fundamentally changed with the advent of JL. Perhaps the new prices make JLs too “precious.” Or JL is attracting a greater number of first-time buyers who don’t know the Wrangler “code” yet. Or FCA has gone overboard and turned Wrangler into a status symbol. Whatever the reason, I find it is now common to be looked down upon for not driving the “right” type of Wrangler. I now feel I have to justify why I drive a Sahara, something I never had to before. Some may not realize this, but Sahara owners regularly get accused of being poor drivers, bad off-roaders, mall crawlers, even poseurs, all because we drive a Sahara. Ironically, half the time we get lectured by Rubicon owners who never even take their Jeeps off-road. I try not to be oversensitive to it, but it is just weird.

Do Sport owners get this too?

One of the nice things of being part of the Jeep community was the feeling of close camaraderie, no matter what Wrangler you drove. I never felt I had to justify why I drove a Sahara, or whatever. A Wrangler was a Wrangler and that was that.

Feel free to reply, agree, disagree, joke, flame, share your hypothesis, but please let’s keep it civil.

A Jeep is a is a Jeep...As the Little Boy said, love all....

 

[G.D.S. 4x4]

goodness. when i responded, all i read was the op’s post. Reading just the last page and a half reminded me why I havent been on forums for years.

what a bunch of grade a douche baggery.

as to the thread, ive gotten a little grief for being a stock gladiator, or “why did you get the mojave and not the rubicon” etc. i dont really care. I got it because it best fit my needs, and you can do damn near everything you want on 33’s and 35’s fit stock. the vast majority of people with jeeps over lift and over tire them. Dont get me wrong, do your thing, but when i see a bro-lifted jeep on 40’s my first thoughts are that the driver likely has no idea what theyre doing. Money spent on 6” of lift and 37-40” tires is better spent on a driving course or two.
[/QUOTE

 

[Zandcwhite]

goodness. when i responded, all i read was the op’s post. Reading just the last page and a half reminded me why I havent been on forums for years.

what a bunch of grade a douche baggery.

as to the thread, ive gotten a little grief for being a stock gladiator, or “why did you get the mojave and not the rubicon” etc. i dont really care. I got it because it best fit my needs, and you can do damn near everything you want on 33’s and 35’s fit stock. the vast majority of people with jeeps over lift and over tire them. Dont get me wrong, do your thing, but when i see a bro-lifted jeep on 40’s my first thoughts are that the driver likely has no idea what theyre doing. Money spent on 6” of lift and 37-40” tires is better spent on a driving course or two.

We went 2.5" lift and 37's after a year of driving and wheeling our 2019 jlur. All of the trails we've run could be done on 33's, with lots of belly dragging, taking the easiest available line, and some high odds of being high centered on occasion. Our moab trip was so much more relaxing on the new set up. Barley scrapped the undercarriage on top of the world and golden spike/ gold bar rim a few times but never had the slightest incling of stuck. We do most of our trips solo, so I'ld rather stay on the over tire size than the under sized and stuck. Holcomb creek and John Bull this weekend will really tell the tale of picking enough tire to clear the obstacles you want to clear.

 

[Rosie2020]

Buy what you like, drive what you like, mod what you like. I used to have some of that elitist mentality ("your Renegade isn't a Jeep" but they bought into the brand too). All of us use the vehicles differently, have different expectations, and realities.

One of the greatest attributes of the Wrangler, every generation, is the customizability! There are SO MANY options for looks, function, or even just expression. We do live in a golden era for this. Hopefully your Jeep puts a smile on your face when you drive or look at it. Mine certainly have more than any other driving appliance.

I totally agree with this. I'm on my 4th Jeep Wrangler (all 2 doors) - I've had other Jeeps; but, I'm a bit of a wrangler snob and don't feel like those matter. LOL

I have had an X, a Sport, a Sahara, now I own a Rubicon. I only modified the Sahara out of the 1st 3... I took it out to southern utah hiking - no off roading; just used it to get to some good hiking spots where it helped to have higher ground clearance and larger tires.
I'm now modifying the Rubicon. I'm planning to take it off road, so I'm making some changes. I also just really want it to look fun. Not for others; but, for me. I don't plan on doing any crazy off roading; but, I want to be prepared for some sand fun and being able to get into some fun hiking places in the back country without killing a regular vehicle.
I love my Wrangler and don't care if someone else doesn't like it.

 

[OnlyOne]

This is an entire thread of dumbfukery.

 

[Haberrj]

You don't have to justify shit!
You are driving what you want and it's doing well for you, frick them!

Your Jeep bud enjoy it don’t worry about those other guys they don’t represent the majority of the Jeep community

 

[TaiMc]

I agree, Tai. He said exactly that....if you say something offensive enough...expect to be punched in the face. And I agree that one should expect that response given those circumstances.....even if that is not how we theoretically should respond in a society that values the ideal of free speech.

However, several times, he went further with that thought or strongly hinted at it....and that's the part with which I took issue.

I don't really want to rehash the entire thing, but let me give an example:



He's stating unequivocally that "some things"....directly referencing shit talking "deserve" a punch to the face.

He's not just saying it's a foreseeable consequence. He's advocating by using the word "deserve".

Notice: we've been discussing offensive speech only; NOT about speech as a vehicle for credible physical threats of violence.

Why does that distinction matter? Because he can't claim that he was saying that violence in response to a threat was the topic of discussion. The conversation has always solely been about someone saying offensive words, and responding with violence.

I think we can all agree that a credible, verbal physical threat can be met with pre-emptive violence. Where we've parted ways is that I do not believe that there are any words (short of credible physical threats) that justify the use of violence in response, i.e., truly free speech.

But I appreciate you taking on the role of peacemaker.

Matt 5:9 " Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God"

YW and Gotcha!

Sorry for re-opening up the can of worms...I posted before I saw all messages. Thanks for your response.

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