How to Adjust Caster

[AVGeek99]

I worked on my suspension all last winter before I finally got everthing resolved. In the end new ball joints (DT HD) was the silver bullet that resolved my shimmy and issues once and for all. I have since had to make some caster adjustments to eliminate vibration in my aftermarket drive shaft. It's been a while since I measured but my caster is somehwere in the 5-5.5 degree range.

The Jeep drives great and I haven't had a single episode of shimmy or DW since installing the ball joints last spring. I will say that the suspension feels a little looser than I'd like, but this is only noticeable crappy stretches of pavement with some uneveness, which unfortunately isn't uncommon on MN roads. In the next month or so I'm planning on stalling an adjustable steering stabilzer to see if that improves it.

This post on anther thread is a pretty good summary of the trials and tribulations I went through last winter trying to eliminate my shimmy and DW.

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...solved-for-real-this-time.125557/post-2666714

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[aroth85]

Hey all!

Just wanted to give a quick update and give some info on my entire story to try and find some resolve.

Stick with me, I'm going to try and not make it sound like word vomit and get out all the specifics. But also keep it short and sweet

Purchased the Jeep.
On the drive home, one of the first overpasses I crossed, the Jeep went into a violent shake.
Had to slow down to roughly 5-10mph to have it stop.
Was this a bad omen and should I have just taken it back to the dealer? Maybe. But we're here now....

Made a call to the dealer We bought it from, and they were going to take care of the repairs, whatever it might be. They just wanted it to be done at a local Jeep dealer. We bought the Jeep 2.5 hours away, so that is why we're having it done locally.

Took the Jeep to the local dealer and learned that the JL is known for DW and it is caused by the steering stabilizer. The only way i remember the old stabilizer, is that it had stickers on it that were clearly not pointing in the wrong direction to the front of the Jeep, etc. I believe it was also recalled. They replaced it with what I believe was Mopar one to fix the issue. This did seem to fix the issue. At least for about 6-8 months.

In September 2024 it started to show its nasty head again.
It's the wife's car, so I was trying to have her gather info. When's it happen? speeds it happens? How Often? Anything.

- Seems to be only highway. Above 60. any drastic bump. specifically overpasses.

- it does only last for a very minimal 2 sec or less. real time. only have to drop speed because it catches us off guard and it will drive out of it pretty quick too. But we know its still not right. and we dont want to cause any damage to the recently replaced parts.

Speed up to present day and here is the list of things we've done to try and rectify this issue.

Found out from the mechanic that the Jeep does have what I believe is 2" or 2.5" lift on it on the coil, which appears to be a spacer of sorts for the added height. Its just on stock 17" rims/tires

Below is my list of replacement parts

Full Tie Rod setup
Drag Link
Solid Track Bar (apparently stock are hollow?)
New track Bar bolts ( 9/16 )
Steering Box Sector Brace
Upgraded to a Dual Steering Stabilizer
( Apparently a JL can't have a dual stabilizer if it doesn't have a small lift on it because of clearance. Thats why we went with a dual stabilizer, when we found those spacers. Because clearly the first stabilizer didn't fix it, it just masked the problem. for 6-8 months)
All Tires Balanced
Alignment was told all within specs and that the caster couldn't be adjusted on stock tie rods/track bar. Not that there was anything wrong with the caster, just that it couldnt be changed.

With all these parts/labor and time down from the Jeep, it doesn't seem like much on paper, but it's felt like a rough road. Roughly 2300 bucks invested into parts with nothing to show for it. Other than knowing, none of those parts were the issue.

I do see in your other post @AVGeek99 that the ball joints are what finally fixed your issue. But Looking into those Ball joints, I'm going to be invested another 1000 bucks in putting those in and I don't know if I can stomach that not fixing it. I'm just at a loss. Looking for advice, support, financial assistance LOL. In finally getting this resolved. I was sure the track bar would do it. Is there any thought that a lesser expensive, more stock ball joint would do the trick if this was my issue? Where to go from here...

Thanks all for your time, input, and help to a fellow DW enthusiast <3

 

[JT1]

Hey all!

Just wanted to give a quick update and give some info on my entire story to try and find some resolve.

Stick with me, I'm going to try and not make it sound like word vomit and get out all the specifics. But also keep it short and sweet

Purchased the Jeep.
On the drive home, one of the first overpasses I crossed, the Jeep went into a violent shake.
Had to slow down to roughly 5-10mph to have it stop.
Was this a bad omen and should I have just taken it back to the dealer? Maybe. But we're here now....

Made a call to the dealer We bought it from, and they were going to take care of the repairs, whatever it might be. They just wanted it to be done at a local Jeep dealer. We bought the Jeep 2.5 hours away, so that is why we're having it done locally.

Took the Jeep to the local dealer and learned that the JL is known for DW and it is caused by the steering stabilizer. The only way i remember the old stabilizer, is that it had stickers on it that were clearly not pointing in the wrong direction to the front of the Jeep, etc. I believe it was also recalled. They replaced it with what I believe was Mopar one to fix the issue. This did seem to fix the issue. At least for about 6-8 months.

In September 2024 it started to show its nasty head again.
It's the wife's car, so I was trying to have her gather info. When's it happen? speeds it happens? How Often? Anything.

Speed up to present day and here is the list of things we've done to try and rectify this issue.

Found out from the mechanic that the Jeep does have what I believe is 2" or 2.5" lift on it on the coil, which appears to be a spacer of sorts for the added height. Its just on stock 17" rims/tires

Full Tie Rod setup
Drag Link
Solid Track Bar (apparently stock are hollow?)
New track Bar bolts ( 9/16 )
Steering Box Sector Brace
Upgraded to a Dual Steering Stabilizer
( Apparently a JL can't have a dual stabilizer if it doesn't have a small lift on it because of clearance. Thats why we went with a dual stabilizer, when we found those spacers. Because clearly the first stabilizer didn't fix it, it just masked the problem. for 6-8 months)
All Tires Balanced
Alignment was told all within specs and that the caster couldn't be adjusted on stock tie rods/track bar. Not that there was anything wrong with the caster, just that it couldnt be changed.

With all these parts/labor and time down from the Jeep, it doesn't seem like much on paper, but it's felt like a rough road. Roughly 2300 bucks invested into parts with nothing to show for it. Other than knowing, none of those parts were the issue.

I do see in your other post @AVGeek99 that the ball joints are what finally fixed your issue. But Looking into those Ball joints, I'm going to be invested another 1000 bucks in putting those in and I don't know if I can stomach that not fixing it. I'm just at a loss. Looking for advice, support, financial assistance LOL. In finally getting this resolved. I was sure the track bar would do it. Is there any thought that a lesser expensive, more stock ball joint would do the trick if this was my issue? Where to go from here...

Thanks all for your time, input, and help to a fellow DW enthusiast <3

Factory ball joints aren't very robust. Mine were wasted at 20K miles when I swapped them for some Metalcloak baller joints. Was a 5 hour job in the garage taking my time. Made a huge difference in the way the jeep drove.

If you have checked everything else, that would be the first place I'd look.

 

[AVGeek99]

Hey all!

Just wanted to give a quick update and give some info on my entire story to try and find some resolve.

Stick with me, I'm going to try and not make it sound like word vomit and get out all the specifics. But also keep it short and sweet

Purchased the Jeep.
On the drive home, one of the first overpasses I crossed, the Jeep went into a violent shake.
Had to slow down to roughly 5-10mph to have it stop.
Was this a bad omen and should I have just taken it back to the dealer? Maybe. But we're here now....

Made a call to the dealer We bought it from, and they were going to take care of the repairs, whatever it might be. They just wanted it to be done at a local Jeep dealer. We bought the Jeep 2.5 hours away, so that is why we're having it done locally.

Took the Jeep to the local dealer and learned that the JL is known for DW and it is caused by the steering stabilizer. The only way i remember the old stabilizer, is that it had stickers on it that were clearly not pointing in the wrong direction to the front of the Jeep, etc. I believe it was also recalled. They replaced it with what I believe was Mopar one to fix the issue. This did seem to fix the issue. At least for about 6-8 months.

In September 2024 it started to show its nasty head again.
It's the wife's car, so I was trying to have her gather info. When's it happen? speeds it happens? How Often? Anything.

- Seems to be only highway. Above 60. any drastic bump. specifically overpasses.

- it does only last for a very minimal 2 sec or less. real time. only have to drop speed because it catches us off guard and it will drive out of it pretty quick too. But we know its still not right. and we dont want to cause any damage to the recently replaced parts.

Speed up to present day and here is the list of things we've done to try and rectify this issue.

Found out from the mechanic that the Jeep does have what I believe is 2" or 2.5" lift on it on the coil, which appears to be a spacer of sorts for the added height. Its just on stock 17" rims/tires

Below is my list of replacement parts

Full Tie Rod setup
Drag Link
Solid Track Bar (apparently stock are hollow?)
New track Bar bolts ( 9/16 )
Steering Box Sector Brace
Upgraded to a Dual Steering Stabilizer
( Apparently a JL can't have a dual stabilizer if it doesn't have a small lift on it because of clearance. Thats why we went with a dual stabilizer, when we found those spacers. Because clearly the first stabilizer didn't fix it, it just masked the problem. for 6-8 months)
All Tires Balanced
Alignment was told all within specs and that the caster couldn't be adjusted on stock tie rods/track bar. Not that there was anything wrong with the caster, just that it couldnt be changed.

With all these parts/labor and time down from the Jeep, it doesn't seem like much on paper, but it's felt like a rough road. Roughly 2300 bucks invested into parts with nothing to show for it. Other than knowing, none of those parts were the issue.

I do see in your other post @AVGeek99 that the ball joints are what finally fixed your issue. But Looking into those Ball joints, I'm going to be invested another 1000 bucks in putting those in and I don't know if I can stomach that not fixing it. I'm just at a loss. Looking for advice, support, financial assistance LOL. In finally getting this resolved. I was sure the track bar would do it. Is there any thought that a lesser expensive, more stock ball joint would do the trick if this was my issue? Where to go from here...

Thanks all for your time, input, and help to a fellow DW enthusiast <3

Kind of need a little more info about your Jeep, miles? Trim level? Tire size? Your Jeep is lifted, assuming you probably have larger than stock tires, because stock tires would look pretty small on a jeep with 2+ inches of lift.

The extra height (from the lift) and weight of bigger tires puts a lot more stress on parts like ball joints and steering linkages (tie rod, drag link). The stock parts aren't designed to acommodate these changes over the long term so they fail sooner than they otherwise would running at stock height and tires. And the ball joints are weird in that they can test fine, but still be an issue, like they were in my case. Since it's the extra height and tire weight that cause the premature wear/failure it's important not to replace any of these parts with new stock parts.

With all the stuff you've already replaced, ball joints are about the only thing left. Do you know if the control arms are stock? Since you have a spacer lift, they probably are, and if so your caster probably isn't ideal. This likely is not the cause of your DW, but it's not helping the handling at all. To correct your caster you're going to need adjustable control arms or drop brackets. But also, if your ball joints are going bad, correcting the caster will do little to nothing to address the DW issue. I don't know what dual steering stabilzer set up you have, but that likely will do little to fix the DW.

Ball joints are expensive to replace, but it's worth it if it gets rid of your DW. I saved a lot of money doing all the work myself. A good chunk of the money I saved on labor went into buying the tools so I could do everything myself. And going in I had very little experience working on Jeeps, or cars in general. It's amazing what you can learn on this forum and watching YouTube videos. And the feeling of accomplishment when you finally fix it is a great feeling. However, ball joints probably aren't how you want to pop your DIY cherry.

 

[aroth85]

Kind of need a little more info about your Jeep, miles? Trim level? Tire size? Your Jeep is lifted, assuming you probably have larger than stock tires, because stock tires would look pretty small on a jeep with 2+ inches of lift.

The extra height (from the lift) and weight of bigger tires puts a lot more stress on parts like ball joints and steering linkages (tie rod, drag link). The stock parts aren't designed to acommodate these changes over the long term so they fail sooner than they otherwise would running at stock height and tires. And the ball joints are weird in that they can test fine, but still be an issue, like they were in my case. Since it's the extra height and tire weight that cause the premature wear/failure it's important not to replace any of these parts with new stock parts.

With all the stuff you've already replaced, ball joints are about the only thing left. Do you know if the control arms are stock? Since you have a spacer lift, they probably are, and if so your caster probably isn't ideal. This likely is not the cause of your DW, but it's not helping the handling at all. To correct your caster you're going to need adjustable control arms or drop brackets. But also, if your ball joints are going bad, correcting the caster will do little to nothing to address the DW issue. I don't know what dual steering stabilzer set up you have, but that likely will do little to fix the DW.

Ball joints are expensive to replace, but it's worth it if it gets rid of your DW. I saved a lot of money doing all the work myself. A good chunk of the money I saved on labor went into buying the tools so I could do everything myself. And going in I had very little experience working on Jeeps, or cars in general. It's amazing what you can learn on this forum and watching YouTube videos. And the feeling of accomplishment when you finally fix it is a great feeling. However, ball joints probably aren't how you want to pop your DIY cherry.

Thanks for all the info you provided there.

2019 Jeep Wrangler Sahara
60k miles ( first issue when purchased was at 47k)
They are just stock Sahara 255/70/18 Rims/AT Tires. Nothing aggressive or big. Completely stock. The Jeep is 100% stock other than the very small lift/dual stabilizer. That lift is actually barely noticeable. Thats, why I was shocked when I was told it even had them in it. So, its not like we have a monster lift with 35s or bigger on it.

The dual steering stabilizer is a Rough Country Dual kit.
We just put this on because it was an inexpensive part to put on and the fix that happened when the dealer replaced it the first time with one. We were hoping for a similar result.

Control arms are stock.

The Jeep actually handles incredibly, other than the intermittent episodes it gets over bumps. No veering, hard to handle, straight down the road like you would expect.

Thankfully enough, I'm mechanically capable from that stand point. I just don't wrench as often as I used to, and as I get older, its much easier to pay the man than do it myself. Lol. Also, thankfully, we don't have a lot invested in Labor costs.... its the darn parts are so expensive. haha.

I did read somewhere, where someone said the farther you deviate from stock, the harder it is going to be to find the issue. Thats why we haven't done anything excessive for that reason. Made sense I guess.

The pic is merely to show the tires don't look small with that lift on it.

Again, Thanks for all the help. Just trying to narrow down possibilities.... Without breaking the bank some more chasing what feels to be a ghost. This is fixable right?

 

[AVGeek99]

Ok that info helps. Next thing I would do is retorque the new track bar, tie rod, and drag link. Have your tires balanced if you haven't already; I think you may have said you did that.

Take it for a test drive and try to hit bumps that are likley to induce a shimmy or DW and see if there is any improvement. If no improvement then there are really two options left: Ball Joints and a better steering stabilizer. 60k miles on stock ball joints is pushing the limits even with stock tires.

I've not had a dual SS set up, but I'm not a fan of Rough Country stuff. My JK I bought used had a RC lift with RC shocks and SS. I realized huge improvements in ride quality and handling when I replaced them with Teraflex shocks and SS. Unless you have a monster Jeep, there is no need for a dual SS set up. It's really more for looks than anything. If a better SS resolves your issues, it's not really resolving them, it's really just hiding a bigger issue. But the flip side of that is if the problem no longer occurs does it really matter?

Ball joints will likely resolve your issue, but it is more money. You could save the labor cost by doing it yourself. I put the DynaTrac HD ball joints in mine. I think they were $550 last year.

The other option, that may or may not resolve your issue is going with a better, preferably adjustable, steering stabilizer. A lot of people say that the better SSs from FOX and TeraFlex resolved their shimmy and DW issues. Depending on what you get they can be a decent amount less than the ball joints. And they are also very easy to install yourself.

I actually just got a Fox 2.0 ATS from Northridge 4x4 at a great price; installing it tomorrow. I've not had any shimmy or DW return, but early this winter I figured out I had my caster set too high. I had it at 6.2 or so. It was fine while in 2WD and on the trail in 4WD. But this year we've had more snow than last and I've had to use 4 high a lot more. When I was in 4 high I was getting some vibration in the front drive shaft starting at about 40mph. So I dialed back my caster to right around 5 degrees. That got rid of the vibration in the drive shaft, but it has loosened up my steering a little so I'm hoping the Fox 2.0 will tighten it up.

 

[Mhonda]

Ok that info helps. Next thing I would do is retorque the new track bar, tie rod, and drag link. Have your tires balanced if you haven't already; I think you may have said you did that.

Take it for a test drive and try to hit bumps that are likley to induce a shimmy or DW and see if there is any improvement. If no improvement then there are really two options left: Ball Joints and a better steering stabilizer. 60k miles on stock ball joints is pushing the limits even with stock tires.

I've not had a dual SS set up, but I'm not a fan of Rough Country stuff. My JK I bought used had a RC lift with RC shocks and SS. I realized huge improvements in ride quality and handling when I replaced them with Teraflex shocks and SS. Unless you have a monster Jeep, there is no need for a dual SS set up. It's really more for looks than anything. If a better SS resolves your issues, it's not really resolving them, it's really just hiding a bigger issue. But the flip side of that is if the problem no longer occurs does it really matter?

Ball joints will likely resolve your issue, but it is more money. You could save the labor cost by doing it yourself. I put the DynaTrac HD ball joints in mine. I think they were $550 last year.

The other option, that may or may not resolve your issue is going with a better, preferably adjustable, steering stabilizer. A lot of people say that the better SSs from FOX and TeraFlex resolved their shimmy and DW issues. Depending on what you get they can be a decent amount less than the ball joints. And they are also very easy to install yourself.

I actually just got a Fox 2.0 ATS from Northridge 4x4 at a great price; installing it tomorrow. I've not had any shimmy or DW return, but early this winter I figured out I had my caster set too high. I had it at 6.2 or so. It was fine while in 2WD and on the trail in 4WD. But this year we've had more snow than last and I've had to use 4 high a lot more. When I was in 4 high I was getting some vibration in the front drive shaft starting at about 40mph. So I dialed back my caster to right around 5 degrees. That got rid of the vibration in the drive shaft, but it has loosened up my steering a little so I'm hoping the Fox 2.0 will tighten it up.

How do you like the Fox 2.0 ATS? Did it firm things up good and what setting do you run it on?

 

[AVGeek99]

How do you like the Fox 2.0 ATS? Did it firm things up good and what setting do you run it on?

I wanted to give it some time so I could get a good feeling. I guess it's been long enough.

The Fox 2.0ATS has been a VERY good investment. It tightened up all the looseness in the steering from running caster at 4.8 degrees. On my way to and from work there is a stretch of freeway with a lot of uneven pavement. Prior to the FOX it felt like the suspension had a lot of play. The FOX tightened that up very good.

I have it set at 16. I tried it at 20, but it was difficult to turn the wheel when stopped on pavement. But as good as it feels at 16 I don't think there is a need to go higher.

My Jeep is a little more than 5" higher than stock height. When I was running my caster at 6.2 the steering was good and tight, but I would get vibration in the front drive shaft in 4hi starting at about 45mph. To get rid of that I had to reduce my caster, I'm currently at 4.8. This introduced some sloppy looseness into the steering, it was especially bad on certain stretches of road with uneven pavement. Now with the Fox the steering is nice and tight again.

I would highly recommend the Fox 2.0 ATS to anyone who is forced to run at a lower caster to prevent driveshaft vibration.

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