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Help with Rubicon vs Sahara decision

ken31756

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I'm kinda late to the party, but since I recently found myself facing a similar decision as you I thought I chime in my 2 cents worth.

At first it seems almost everything you said would have had me going with the Rubi.... it's not your daily driver, the Rubi is better geared for off road, larger tires, has larger fender openings, lockers, etc etc etc. AND Rubicons hold their resale value better! And you list of options the Rubi was missing was no big deal really. You could have added a heavy duty alternator/ battery/ trailer hitch. The limited slip is nothing compared to the set up the Rubi has with it lockers. And the cold weather package is a waste here in AZ. Mine actually came with the cold package and I had to remove the battery warmer cover for fear it would over heat the battery here in the 115+ summer heat!
HOWEVER....
when I read your comment about it having a steering issue, that would have had me re-thinking things. Jeeps seem to be notorious for steering issues, and as we all know they can be involved if not impossible to cure sometimes. And if it has a problem when its for sale... nuh uh! Bye bye.

My last 2 jeeps were Rubicons, JK and TJ. I narrowed down my JL purchase to two... both 2018s, one a silver Sahara and the other a white Rubi. After test driving the Rubi I was kind of concerned about how it handled. Steering seemed weird...not sure exactly what, but something was off. They told me it hadn't had the new updated steering stabilizer installed yet, and they would do that for me. Yeah right.... how bout install it before you put it out on the lot! Takes 10mins! Besides, all the reports seem to suggest that the improved stabilizer hasn't cure anything. So yeah... all BS!

Meanwhile by comparison my Sahara test drove was the exact opposite. Handled like a dream! Steering was just perfect! Best handling Jeep I've ever drove in my life! (and I've had a few) I fell in love with how it handled. And so I bought it. And so far I have been very pleased with the choice!

True if I find myself at the Moab Rim, Golden Spike, Blanca Peak, Holy Cross, Iron Chest, a certain 80 yard section of Lockhart Basin, God forbid, Pritchett Canyon, Amasa Back, Rose Garden Hill, the Wall on Poughkeepsie, Kane Creek, etc., etc. and get in trouble I might wish I had a Rubicon, but honestly I've never been to any of those places. My off roading is more moderate, an occasional weekend campout, drive up to the lake, take a trip to the mountains, or out through the desert here in AZ. But the reality is most of my miles are on pavement.

Congrats on your choice! I think you were wise to pass on "that" Rubi, and like me I'm sure your Sahara will provide you lots of fun.
AND... that eye grabbing color! :rock: I'll keep my eye open for you around town!

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HardSell

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My off roading is more moderate, an occasional weekend campout, drive up to the lake, take a trip to the mountains, or out through the desert here in AZ. But the reality is most of my miles are on pavement.
Fair enough. Good post. Regarding my use of a Jeep most of the fun miles are challenging, remote, off pavement wheeling. If one only needs a hang glider to fly, then indeed, a stunt bi plane is completely unwarranted. For now, despite liking the drive-ability of the JL Rubi, I'm only in the market for a JK or even a TJ Rubi. I reject the JL because based on my 50 years of wheeling, it's over featured and unnecessarily Rube Goldberged to electronically survive over time the rigors of repeated 4+ rated wheeling. Unlike previous Jeep affiliates, FJA is requiring the acceptance of too much frilly bad to get the good. As current demand continues, nothing will change until experience changes perception. I'm constrained to accept that reality for now.
 

aldo98229

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Fair enough. Good post. Regarding my use of a Jeep most of the fun miles are challenging, remote, off pavement wheeling. If one only needs a hang glider to fly, then indeed, a stunt bi plane is completely unwarranted. For now, despite liking the drive-ability of the JL Rubi, I'm only in the market for a JK or even a TJ Rubi. I reject the JL because based on my 50 years of wheeling, it's over featured and unnecessarily Rube Goldberged to electronically survive over time the rigors of repeated 4+ rated wheeling. Unlike previous Jeep affiliates, FJA is requiring the acceptance of too much frilly bad to get the good. As current demand continues, nothing will change until experience changes perception. I'm constrained to accept that reality for now.
That’s perfectly valid.

I’d also add: it makes little sense to spend $50,000 on a Rubicon to get it all beat up on the trail.

I realize some people are doing just that, and that’s their prerogative. Still, it makes no sense to me.
 

OnlyOne

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The moment a Sahara driver finds himself struggling with Moab Rim, Golden Spike, Blanca Peak, Holy Cross, Iron Chest, a certain 80 yard section of Lockhart Basin, God forbid, Pritchett Canyon, Amasa Back, Rose Garden Hill, the Wall on Poughkeepsie, Kane Creek, etc., etc., he'll soon realize he needs to add another $12,000 of not-quite-factory upgrades to match the effortless performance of an out-of-the-box Rubicon or worse yet an intelligent purchase of a $7000 built barn find.
Although I currently own and have owned Rubicons, I ran most of these trails you listed in a 2 door JK sport on 33s and no lockers with a winch (and a friend). I will admit, I winched most of the hard ones.
Poughkeepsie, 4 different times I have yet to make without winching. Rubicon’s and all. It’s always wet. Most Sports and Sahara’s will do quite well on most trails. Add a winch and a partner and you’ll be in for a whole lot less than a Rubi. You still can not replace the factory awesomeness of a Rubicon in these examples though.
 

HardSell

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it makes little sense to spend $50,000 on a Rubicon to get it all beat up on the trail.
My '87 XJ saw a lot of 4-4+ rated wheeling. It still looked close to stock when it was stolen. Used is different than beat up. I'm dealing now for an '05 Rubi equipped as I like. Hope it works out.. if not, there'll always another. I'd write a check for a new JL Rubi, but factory now refuses to build it the way I want it even from their own order sheet; go figure.....far different experience than I had with the '87. AMC Toronto was able to deliver exactly what I wanted.....their last month in business. It can only be FCA's profit when FCA provides the goods I want. Despite having the cash, I refuse to be the buyer that FCA wants me to be.
 

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aldo98229

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My '87 XJ saw a lot of 4-4+ rated wheeling. It still looked close to stock when it was stolen. Used is different than beat up. I'm dealing now for an '05 Rubi equipped as I like. Hope it works out.. if not, there'll always another. I'd write a check for a new JL Rubi, but factory now refuses to build it the way I want it even from their own order sheet; go figure.....far different experience than I had with the '87. AMC Toronto was able to deliver exactly what I wanted.....their last month in business. It can only be FCA's profit when FCA provides the goods I want. Despite having the cash, I refuse to be the buyer that FCA wants me to be.
I agree, some of these complex electronics have no place in a true off-road vehicle. But in fairness to FCA, they are simply following the money.

The unique thing about off-roading, though, is that the latest and greatest are not necessary. This makes it easy to pick up a used, older Jeep and build it up exactly the way you want.

When the time comes to build an older JL, say 10 years down the road, chances are the ESS, the backup camera, the blind spot monitors, etc., won’t be working any more. At that point, you will only be paying for the parts that you want.
 

HardSell

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Poughkeepsie, 4 different times I have yet to make without winching.
First Poughkeepsie run for me was back in 2000. My son and I did it entirely stock; his a '94 Grand mine the '87 XJ. There were no winch pegs then. I wore 29" Goodyear Wranglers. Poughkeepsie was re-routed in the '80s after a rockslide blocked the higher east hugging original trail which was slightly less difficult. The way to do it without lockers is to disconnect, begin the ascent diagonally from the left, tipping toward passenger side, turning left, and upward onto the right crest of the "wall". Watch out for the winch peg now conveniently placed to puncture your left tire after completing your ascent. Lockers permit a much safer straight on type of approach. Poughkeepsie's "wall" is laughable after wheeling around Moab.
 

HardSell

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When the time comes to build an older JL, say 10 years down the road, chances are the ESS, the backup camera, the blind spot monitors, etc., won’t be working any more. At that point, you will only be paying for the parts that you want.
You're not going to be able to bypass a proximity ignition system to even begin to start a JL let alone the other hurdles built into that starting sequence. e.g., same as not being able to eliminate the crankshaft position sensor on older Jeeps. Can't get a spark without all that working perfectly.
 
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Jamrock

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That’s perfectly valid.

I’d also add: it makes little sense to spend $50,000 on a Rubicon to get it all beat up on the trail.

I realize some people are doing just that, and that’s their prerogative. Still, it makes no sense to me.
What he said...

I will strongly defend their right to do it but I don't understand it.
 

ViperJon

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I'd write a check for a new JL Rubi, but factory now refuses to build it the way I want .
That's what I tell the guys on the Ferrari forum. Got a check right here but they won't build it the way I want.
 

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OnlyOne

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First Poughkeepsie run for me was back in 2000. My son and I did it entirely stock; his a '94 Grand mine the '87 XJ. There were no winch pegs then. I wore 29" Goodyear Wranglers. Poughkeepsie was re-routed in the '80s after a rockslide blocked the higher east hugging original trail which was slightly less difficult. The way to do it without lockers is to disconnect, begin the ascent diagonally from the left, tipping toward passenger side, turning left, and upward onto the right crest of the "wall". Watch out for the winch peg now conveniently placed to puncture your left tire after completing your ascent. Lockers permit a much safer straight on type of approach. Poughkeepsie's "wall" is laughable after wheeling around Moab.
Yeah nothing hard about it. It’s just been raining on every try. It’s always best to just hook a line in the rain, especially in a 2 door. It’s really the only “obstacle” on the loop. The best way up it now is the far right.
 

Tdurden032

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I know I’m late to the discussion here but just wanted to say that I bought my JLUR over a Sahara as a daily driver, and couldn’t be more happy. I wear a suit every day to work and as impractical as a Rubicon may seem as a DD, no matter how stressful my work day is, admiring that Rubicon as I walk up to it in the parking area and then driving that manual transmission jeep home just makes everything awesome again. It’s not nearly as flashy or comfortable as some of the Sahara’s or even Sports that I’ve seen, but this Rubicon really checked all of the boxes that I wanted, and I couldn’t be more happy.
 

HardSell

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I wear a suit every day to work
You need to pack that suit and get it out to Moab and up Blanca Peak (lift recommended) when the Corona crap ends. Before the Europeans re-invade, camp in Needles and drive Elephant Hill (stock is fine). When you return home let others wonder, "Hmmm... a Rubicon....wonder where it's been.....wonder where it's going."
 

Tdurden032

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You need to pack that suit and get it out to Moab and up Blanca Peak (lift recommended) when the Corona crap ends. Before the Europeans re-invade, camp in Needles and drive Elephant Hill (stock is fine). When you return home let others wonder, "Hmmm... a Rubicon....wonder where it's been.....wonder where it's going."
That sounds great - I’d love to try it out on some trails and bring the family for a camping adventure - thanks for the recommendation!
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