ESS FAILURE

[Reinen]

Willy's beat me to it!

ESS is not worth the starter wear as far as I am concerned.

I don't see starter wear being a factor at all. They're designed for ESS now.

They're also electronically controlled. Starter motors no longer have to endure humans keeping it engaged too long when starting the engine or someone trying to start an already started engine. The wear of being used properly pales in comparison to that.

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[kah.mun.rah]

I don't see starter wear being a factor at all. They're designed for ESS now.

They're also electronically controlled. Starter motors no longer have to endure humans keeping it engaged too long when starting the engine or someone trying to start an already started engine. The wear of being used properly pales in comparison to that.

There are already people complaining that their JL starters are going out and need replaced. Maybe it isn't ESS related but using anything 5+ times more than typical per day seems like it could be a factor in wear and tear. Now if you have an e-Torque it is a different story because it doesn't use your starter during the auto start/stop.

 

[Walker Texas Wrangler]

I went through a year dance with the Start/Stop not engaging. 2 auxiliary batteries after a few visits saying it should be fine always had it stop working after a week. Finally they replaced the main battery and everything has been fine since February. Although, don't expect it to kick on in the heat of the day in this summer. Have they replaced your main battery yet? Get that done and see what happens, mine was replaced under warranty.

 

[STW]

I've seen zero difference in mpg when using ESS vs not using ESS. People with more and longer stoplights than I have may see a little mpg difference.

Here is my suggestion, quoted below from my other post just now on another thread. I'm sorry that I cannot recommend keeping Jeeps Main/Aux battery system in place. You bought a Jeep and its systems should work. But the Main/Aux system doesn't work so well, and is not worth keeping if you have problems. Fortunately, the solution is easy and cheap...
_____________
Some people who drive a lot of short trips will have problems with the Main/Aux system. The Main/Aux system seems to be more than usually sensitive to having enough alternator time to fully recharge. You can have the parasitic situation where the Main and the Aux are both in an under-charged condition, trying to re-charge off each other, and both get damaged.

My guess from reading every damn one of these threads is it has something to do with Jeep's implementation of the dual batteries with inter-dependent charging and interdependent switching for start-up readiness. I'm guessing people who drive short trips would have this issue with the Main/Aux even if they didn't use ESS auto-start/stop. ESS is an extra drain, and taxes the Main/Aux system further, and it's the "cause" of the problem in the sense that ESS is the reason Jeep came up with the Main/Aux system where the Aux is supposed to power accessories (e.g. AC) while the motor is stopped by ESS. (ESS is not the cause in the sense that Jeep could have implemented a better system. For example, Auto-start/stop works fine in Jeep's own eTorque Jeeps.)

This is why bypassing the Aux is the best solution if there is any chance you'll have enough short trips to put your Main/Aux in an undercharged state. Bypassing the Aux costs zero money, is quick and easy, and is easily reversible when you take it to the dealer, if you're nervous about that. You don't have to remove the Aux. It can sit there bypassed. You can still use ESS if you want. The start/stop will work fine with Aux bypassed as long as your Main is in its charged up state, and it helps to not run much accessories during long stop lights with ESS. If the Main is not charged enough for the ESS, worst thing than will happen is you'll get a message that ESS is not available. But with the Aux bypassed, that message is no big deal because you don't have an Aux parasitically trying to devour your Main, nor do you have a system ready to prevent you from starting your Jeep if the batteries are in an undercharged state. Bypassing the Aux just leaves you with the simple one battery situation you're used to. Get a big capacity AGM Main battery and you may have about the same number of amps you'd get with the two smaller batteries in aftermarket dual battery setups.

Turning off ESS is as easy and cheap as hitting the dash button on start-up.
Tazer Mini also turns it off, and there are other aftermarket solutions if you don't want the Tazer Mini.
________
Me, I don't mind ESS and my Main/Aux system worked fine with ESS for almost a year while I drove mostly longer trips with plenty of alternator charging time. When I sold a vehicle and used the JLR for my short 4 mile commute to work (last winter), within a month I was having "ESS not available" messages, then other odd dash messages too. Reading up on JLforum here showed me that was the sure sign my Main/Aux system was failing. Sure enough, when I tested them neither battery could hold a charge. Fortunately, I read the jumperless bypass, fuse F42 thread, and haven't had a single problem since I did the bypass. Whether you need to replace your Main or not will depend on how much the Aux system has damaged it, which you can test.
https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/jumperless-aux-battery-bypass.95945/

 

[JerseyJeff]

The ess on my 21 willy's sport ecodiesel stopped working about a year after ownership. No warning lights or messages. Took it to the dealership. They did a software update. Still didn't work. 12k mile later still No warning lights, messages or problems.

 

[Rustynail11]

I am not. I have well cared for original tires and original lift. With broken ESS I cannot get above 16 MPG overall.

ESS has zero effect on your MPG, the purpose of ESS is to reduce emissions when stopped not to help with MPG.

 

[Upnarms]

If there is a way to give you my ESS, you can have it! It sucks and regardless of what they say, it does wear it the starter faster. But besides that, I saw no difference in mpg either. Mpg is all dependant of your driving anyway like city vs hwy. Before my lift, I maybe got 15-16mpg in city in my rubicon. Highway 18-21. Worst is in AZ the AC compressor shuts off at lights so hot air blows until it starts again. I disabled mine with Tazer and never looked back.

II would try doing the aux battery delete it your vehicle has one-sorry I didn't look at your veh specs. It's the one where u pull a fuse and tape off neg battery terminal for the aux. Then u can rule it out.

Oh and and for the HD alternator? I had the 220 stock. They now put these decoupler pulleys on the alternators cause they claim it makes them last longer. 37k miles my decoupler pulley leaks out grease . At the time couldnt find just the decoupler part so you had to replace the alternator. I upgraded to the 240 amp. So don't believe what "they" say about parts being designed to last longer. My TJ alternator is 20 years old w zero issues, no fancy decoupler pulley . Alternator it's super easy to replace fyi, surprisingly, so if you want to go up to the 240amp, it's an easy diy job. Plug and play.

 

[B&ZRubi]

First sorry you are having this problem. I get it that it worked once and it should work now and when it does not work for an obvious reason for people like you and me, it bugs us. Mine worked fine until I started to have battery issues to the point the jeep would not start. Took it to several Jeep dealers and could not even get an appointment for weeks. Found one dealer that brought out the computer and connected it to the OBD port and the battery voltage was low. Tried charging it, but never made a difference.

Finally got it in and they diagnosed it as both batteries were weak and the voltage sensor was also bad. They replaced both batteries and sensor under warranty and I was good to go. Four months later same issue. Took it to another Jeep dealer and in the end found the alternator was bad. They replaced both batteries and the alternator and since then all has been great. I do keep it on a Battery Tender while it is parked in the garage, but knock on wood, no problems and it works as designed.

If you don't have the best dealer for repairs that you trust, you might want to pull the alternator and take it to a shop that can properly test it and see if the alternator is the problem. If they find it is bad, you can take that info the the dealer and try to get it replaced under warranty.

I have a 2020 JL Rubicon hardtop and only once did I ever see the warning about the AC running. The ESS has turned off the engine with the AC running all the time. Sometimes it does start on its own if it has been sitting for a long light.

This system is very sensitive to battery voltage. If one or both batteries are weak for whatever reason, the system will not work as designed. Good luck getting this issue resolved.

 

[LouisianaLady]

From what I have experienced, the ESS (broken or working) does not give a noticeable change in MPG. If anything it wears out your starter 5 times faster when it is working. If you are only getting 16 MPG I would think that the root cause is something else (low tire pressure, brake calipers that are not fully disengaging, etc.).

Little chance of tire pressure, brake callipers or easy fixes like that causing MPG problem. 27,000 approx miles, still in warranty and dealer visits include 16 (?) Pointe inspections. I'm due for 30k maintenance, and will ask for a. c. scrutiny and maintenance, as well as pointe inspection special care. They already replaced one tire sensor. Does starter wear affect MPG? Thanks.

 

[LouisianaLady]

If there is a way to give you my ESS, you can have it! It sucks and regardless of what they say, it does wear it the starter faster. But besides that, I saw no difference in mpg either. Mpg is all dependant of your driving anyway like city vs hwy. Before my lift, I maybe got 15-16mpg in city in my rubicon. Highway 18-21. Worst is in AZ the AC compressor shuts off at lights so hot air blows until it starts again. I disabled mine with Tazer and never looked back.

II would try doing the aux battery delete it your vehicle has one-sorry I didn't look at your veh specs. It's the one where u pull a fuse and tape off neg battery terminal for the aux. Then u can rule it out.

Oh and and for the HD alternator? I had the 220 stock. They now put these decoupler pulleys on the alternators cause they claim it makes them last longer. 37k miles my decoupler pulley leaks out grease . At the time couldnt find just the decoupler part so you had to replace the alternator. I upgraded to the 240 amp. So don't believe what "they" say about parts being designed to last longer. My TJ alternator is 20 years old w zero issues, no fancy decoupler pulley . Alternator it's super easy to replace fyi, surprisingly, so if you want to go up to the 240amp, it's an easy diy job. Plug and play.

Get back to you after I study your email. THANKS.

 

[kah.mun.rah]

Does starter wear affect MPG? Thanks.

Nope. But the cost of a replacement starter can buy a lot of gas.

 

[Upnarms]

Ok, i just went back and read you have a manual 2021. Your mpg could be the way you drive it, not saying anything negative there don't get me wrong, but when I had a manual, I probably ran higher rpms than an automatic with a computer controlling shift points would. Rated Mpg I would guess is under ideal conditions with the most conservative shift point rpms. If you are getting 16mpg around town, that's more than likely the standard Mpg for your vehicle. Shut off at stops is when your engine is barely sipping any gas at all. Just see how many hours your jeep will run idling and you'll see what I'm saying.

But I get it, having a warning light on and something not working the way it's supposed to is annoying, especially if you want it to work!

 

[LouisianaLady]

I went through a year dance with the Start/Stop not engaging. 2 auxiliary batteries after a few visits saying it should be fine always had it stop working after a week. Finally they replaced the main battery and everything has been fine since February. Although, don't expect it to kick on in the heat of the day in this summer. Have they replaced your main battery yet? Get that done and see what happens, mine was replaced under warranty.

Replaced both of my batteries, auxiliary twice, and said combined charge had to be 86%. ESS will engage about .01% of running time and MPG is 16 MPG range.

 

[LouisianaLady]

9

I went through a year dance with the Start/Stop not engaging. 2 auxiliary batteries after a few visits saying it should be fine always had it stop working after a week. Finally they replaced the main battery and everything has been fine since February. Although, don't expect it to kick on in the heat of the day in this summer. Have they replaced your main battery yet? Get that done and see what happens, mine was replaced under warranty.

Both batteries replaced and combined charge was over 86%. ESS engages about .01% of drive time and getting 16MPG.

 

[LouisianaLady]

I've seen zero difference in mpg when using ESS vs not using ESS. People with more and longer stoplights than I have may see a little mpg difference.

Here is my suggestion, quoted below from my other post just now on another thread. I'm sorry that I cannot recommend keeping Jeeps Main/Aux battery system in place. You bought a Jeep and its systems should work. But the Main/Aux system doesn't work so well, and is not worth keeping if you have problems. Fortunately, the solution is easy and cheap...
_____________
Some people who drive a lot of short trips will have problems with the Main/Aux system. The Main/Aux system seems to be more than usually sensitive to having enough alternator time to fully recharge. You can have the parasitic situation where the Main and the Aux are both in an under-charged condition, trying to re-charge off each other, and both get damaged.

My guess from reading every damn one of these threads is it has something to do with Jeep's implementation of the dual batteries with inter-dependent charging and interdependent switching for start-up readiness. I'm guessing people who drive short trips would have this issue with the Main/Aux even if they didn't use ESS auto-start/stop. ESS is an extra drain, and taxes the Main/Aux system further, and it's the "cause" of the problem in the sense that ESS is the reason Jeep came up with the Main/Aux system where the Aux is supposed to power accessories (e.g. AC) while the motor is stopped by ESS. (ESS is not the cause in the sense that Jeep could have implemented a better system. For example, Auto-start/stop works fine in Jeep's own eTorque Jeeps.)

This is why bypassing the Aux is the best solution if there is any chance you'll have enough short trips to put your Main/Aux in an undercharged state. Bypassing the Aux costs zero money, is quick and easy, and is easily reversible when you take it to the dealer, if you're nervous about that. You don't have to remove the Aux. It can sit there bypassed. You can still use ESS if you want. The start/stop will work fine with Aux bypassed as long as your Main is in its charged up state, and it helps to not run much accessories during long stop lights with ESS. If the Main is not charged enough for the ESS, worst thing than will happen is you'll get a message that ESS is not available. But with the Aux bypassed, that message is no big deal because you don't have an Aux parasitically trying to devour your Main, nor do you have a system ready to prevent you from starting your Jeep if the batteries are in an undercharged state. Bypassing the Aux just leaves you with the simple one battery situation you're used to. Get a big capacity AGM Main battery and you may have about the same number of amps you'd get with the two smaller batteries in aftermarket dual battery setups.

Turning off ESS is as easy and cheap as hitting the dash button on start-up.
Tazer Mini also turns it off, and there are other aftermarket solutions if you don't want the Tazer Mini.
________
Me, I don't mind ESS and my Main/Aux system worked fine with ESS for almost a year while I drove mostly longer trips with plenty of alternator charging time. When I sold a vehicle and used the JLR for my short 4 mile commute to work (last winter), within a month I was having "ESS not available" messages, then other odd dash messages too. Reading up on JLforum here showed me that was the sure sign my Main/Aux system was failing. Sure enough, when I tested them neither battery could hold a charge. Fortunately, I read the jumperless bypass, fuse F42 thread, and haven't had a single problem since I did the bypass. Whether you need to replace your Main or not will depend on how much the Aux system has damaged it, which you can test.
https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/jumperless-aux-battery-bypass.95945/

Thanks STW. You are right. I live in New Orleans. Lots of slow traffic. Replaced my auxilliary twice. Combined charge must be 86% per dealer. Misdesigned aystem. I may just buy the main battery and have them charge both up to 86% No other choice but to consider having dealer replace this with new model with torque engine and 2024 models also have cold air intake. JEEP NO LONGER WILL SELL 6SP MANUAL TRANSMISSION SINCE ESS NEEDS POWER SYSTEMS INCLUDING POWER STEERING TO WORK. Getting bigger main and another aux and charging both up to 86% may work. If not, I will do the bypass. Problem: i spent 41k on car plus $3200 extended warranty and it's poorly designed with electical system substandard. They will replace but Jeep makes nothing I want now: automatics only. I will continue studying your email. THANK YOU.

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