Does WOT really help the Pentastar?

[Jeep Junkie]

Please explain. I feel wrong doing it, the thingy goes over the red line.

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[YGBSM392]

I feel that we're walking into a "Who's on first?" kind of thing.

 

[Stetson]

I have the 6MT with mine and I run the heck out of it and it runs good. I wind it out all the time. It’s a ‘19 and I have had the clutch service done. No issues.

go ahead and run it and have fun.

Stetson

 

[Jeep Junkie]

I have the 6MT with mine and I run the heck out of it and it runs good. I wind it out all the time. It’s a ‘19 and I have had the clutch service done. No issues.

go ahead and run it and have fun.

Stetson

 

[YGBSM392]

I put my thingy over the red line and now I'm not allowed within 150 yards of a subway.

 

[Old Dogger]

The pentastar design engineer says yes, do it.

Nice! As an former Pentastar design engineer I am slightly bias but the engine is really high quality. Few points from the development using tens of millions of dollars in analysis and testing regarding the oil and durability..... The lighter oil was chosen mostly for fuel economy BUT engineering is the science of compromise. You help one thing but hurt another. A thicker oil will reduce timing chain and tensioner wear because the center timing chain idler doesn't go fully hydrodynamic till about 1650rpm on 5w-20. So, a thicker oil will lower that number slightly and with general loads/speeds the engine spends a lot of time around 1500-1750 rpm with the 8 speed. So thicker oil is a win there. Additionally, the earlier engines had what was called the "McDonald's Arches" in the idler bearing which was intended in making a more uniform distribution but in actuality acted as a knife edge. This design was changed around 2014 to a smooth bearing. So overall timing chain issues will likely follow the 2011-2014 engine years more than 2014+. Where you lose.... The head is very complicated with a Type II valve train. Meaning lots of things to pressurize and pump up at start up. A thicker oil didn't do so well here (on long sit times +cold start) and contributed to a overall increased engine wear especially in the head and cam bearings. Last point. This engine needs occasional WOT runs if you want it to last. Granny cycling is bad for it. So bad for it we actually created a new granny cycle test during the cylinder #3 misfire issue. The highest wear is in the valve guides, because of tight valve stem seals (for emissions, reduce oil burn). They basically dry out. When you go WOT/high rpm/load you get some fresh oil in there and this keeps the wear down. Thicker oil might not help this condition but we also change the valves/guides/seals in 2014+. Not sure the impact. Cheers! Kevin PS. Turn off stop start and do not run e85 if you are concerned about engine wear. Eats the engine alive.

 

[Jeep Junkie]

The pentastar design engineer says yes, do it.

Nice! As an former Pentastar design engineer I am slightly bias but the engine is really high quality. Few points from the development using tens of millions of dollars in analysis and testing regarding the oil and durability..... The lighter oil was chosen mostly for fuel economy BUT engineering is the science of compromise. You help one thing but hurt another. A thicker oil will reduce timing chain and tensioner wear because the center timing chain idler doesn't go fully hydrodynamic till about 1650rpm on 5w-20. So, a thicker oil will lower that number slightly and with general loads/speeds the engine spends a lot of time around 1500-1750 rpm with the 8 speed. So thicker oil is a win there. Additionally, the earlier engines had what was called the "McDonald's Arches" in the idler bearing which was intended in making a more uniform distribution but in actuality acted as a knife edge. This design was changed around 2014 to a smooth bearing. So overall timing chain issues will likely follow the 2011-2014 engine years more than 2014+. Where you lose.... The head is very complicated with a Type II valve train. Meaning lots of things to pressurize and pump up at start up. A thicker oil didn't do so well here (on long sit times +cold start) and contributed to a overall increased engine wear especially in the head and cam bearings. Last point. This engine needs occasional WOT runs if you want it to last. Granny cycling is bad for it. So bad for it we actually created a new granny cycle test during the cylinder #3 misfire issue. The highest wear is in the valve guides, because of tight valve stem seals (for emissions, reduce oil burn). They basically dry out. When you go WOT/high rpm/load you get some fresh oil in there and this keeps the wear down. Thicker oil might not help this condition but we also change the valves/guides/seals in 2014+. Not sure the impact. Cheers! Kevin PS. Turn off stop start and do not run e85 if you are concerned about engine wear. Eats the engine alive.

 

[jbcrane]

The pentastar design engineer says yes, do it.

Nice! As an former Pentastar design engineer I am slightly bias but the engine is really high quality. Few points from the development using tens of millions of dollars in analysis and testing regarding the oil and durability..... The lighter oil was chosen mostly for fuel economy BUT engineering is the science of compromise. You help one thing but hurt another. A thicker oil will reduce timing chain and tensioner wear because the center timing chain idler doesn't go fully hydrodynamic till about 1650rpm on 5w-20. So, a thicker oil will lower that number slightly and with general loads/speeds the engine spends a lot of time around 1500-1750 rpm with the 8 speed. So thicker oil is a win there. Additionally, the earlier engines had what was called the "McDonald's Arches" in the idler bearing which was intended in making a more uniform distribution but in actuality acted as a knife edge. This design was changed around 2014 to a smooth bearing. So overall timing chain issues will likely follow the 2011-2014 engine years more than 2014+. Where you lose.... The head is very complicated with a Type II valve train. Meaning lots of things to pressurize and pump up at start up. A thicker oil didn't do so well here (on long sit times +cold start) and contributed to a overall increased engine wear especially in the head and cam bearings. Last point. This engine needs occasional WOT runs if you want it to last. Granny cycling is bad for it. So bad for it we actually created a new granny cycle test during the cylinder #3 misfire issue. The highest wear is in the valve guides, because of tight valve stem seals (for emissions, reduce oil burn). They basically dry out. When you go WOT/high rpm/load you get some fresh oil in there and this keeps the wear down. Thicker oil might not help this condition but we also change the valves/guides/seals in 2014+. Not sure the impact. Cheers! Kevin PS. Turn off stop start and do not run e85 if you are concerned about engine wear. Eats the engine alive.

Thank you for your service ;-). I'm a big fan of the Pentastar and when purchasing, knew I wanted the non-eTorque, straight up 3.6L V6 paired with the manual transmission. I know others have their preferences and opinions and that's fine. Those are mine. So thanks for the inside-baseball on it and if you have any other tidbits to pass along I'd love to hear them. Mine's a lifer - a keeper - the one I've always wanted, so I treat him like it.

I've always run 0W20, but recently ran 2 back-to-back rounds of 5W30 to see how it felt. The last change I returned to 0W20 and he's running like a top. He gets an oil change around 3k miles or sooner, depending on what happened in those miles.

I don't wind him out too much, except in the hills. There's a local hill I take him up once every couple of weeks, drop into 3rd and hit the gas. He has never been red-lined, but I take him up between high 5k-6krpm. So @Jeep Junkie, WOT doesn't mean red-lining him, but getting oil pressure up around 75 or so.

edit: oh, and ESS is always turned off. That was a really, really bad idea from the beginning.

 

[Jeep Junkie]

Thank you for your service ;-). I'm a big fan of the Pentastar and when purchasing, knew I wanted the non-eTorque, straight up 3.6L V6 paired with the manual transmission. I know others have their preferences and opinions and that's fine. Those are mine. So thanks for the inside-baseball on it and if you have any other tidbits to pass along I'd love to hear them. Mine's a lifer - a keeper - the one I've always wanted, so I treat him like it.

I've always run 0W20, but recently ran 2 back-to-back rounds of 5W30 to see how it felt. The last change I returned to 0W20 and he's running like a top. He gets an oil change around 3k miles or sooner, depending on what happened in those miles.

I don't wind him out too much, except in the hills. There's a local hill I take him up once every couple of weeks, drop into 3rd and hit the gas. He has never been red-lined, but I take him up between high 5k-6krpm. So @Jeep Junkie, WOT doesn't mean red-lining him, but getting oil pressure up around 75 or so.

edit: oh, and ESS is always turned off. That was a really, really bad idea from the beginning.

It is so easy to get this to 80 psi, happens to me all the time

 

[Odyssey USA]

The pentastar design engineer says yes, do it.

Nice! As an former Pentastar design engineer I am slightly bias but the engine is really high quality. Few points from the development using tens of millions of dollars in analysis and testing regarding the oil and durability..... The lighter oil was chosen mostly for fuel economy BUT engineering is the science of compromise. You help one thing but hurt another. A thicker oil will reduce timing chain and tensioner wear because the center timing chain idler doesn't go fully hydrodynamic till about 1650rpm on 5w-20. So, a thicker oil will lower that number slightly and with general loads/speeds the engine spends a lot of time around 1500-1750 rpm with the 8 speed. So thicker oil is a win there. Additionally, the earlier engines had what was called the "McDonald's Arches" in the idler bearing which was intended in making a more uniform distribution but in actuality acted as a knife edge. This design was changed around 2014 to a smooth bearing. So overall timing chain issues will likely follow the 2011-2014 engine years more than 2014+. Where you lose.... The head is very complicated with a Type II valve train. Meaning lots of things to pressurize and pump up at start up. A thicker oil didn't do so well here (on long sit times +cold start) and contributed to a overall increased engine wear especially in the head and cam bearings. Last point. This engine needs occasional WOT runs if you want it to last. Granny cycling is bad for it. So bad for it we actually created a new granny cycle test during the cylinder #3 misfire issue. The highest wear is in the valve guides, because of tight valve stem seals (for emissions, reduce oil burn). They basically dry out. When you go WOT/high rpm/load you get some fresh oil in there and this keeps the wear down. Thicker oil might not help this condition but we also change the valves/guides/seals in 2014+. Not sure the impact. Cheers! Kevin PS. Turn off stop start and do not run e85 if you are concerned about engine wear. Eats the engine alive.

Gotta admit this “engineer” post makes me SMH. He’s proud of an engine with such prominent conflicting needs. We “stupidly” spent millions in testing yet wouldn’t address the shortcomings. SMH lol

There’s some redeeming value in it though. It gives some insight for trying to address both problems with the latest lubrication advancements which have come along a fair amount since the design of the engine and even the latest PUG iteration.

It whispers to me “PAO/Ester base oil 0w-40 with the strongest anti-wear additive pack and Star polymer VII available.” Best cold flow, sacrificial layer when the oil boundary layer (Stribeck Curve) film fails, and the strongest shear stability. So spending $80-$100 an oil change for just the oil and change it every 3-5k miles if you don’t test though it will likely go MUCH further than that I’ve read. Some are ridiculous.

Next best thing, quality oil and change it every 3k miles with a quality filter. That’s what I’ve gathered.

Got some HPL PCMO Premium Plus 0w-40 on the way. At the end of the second oil charge I’m considering getting an oil sample sent and requesting sub 5 micron results too. Then I’ll compare that to the next sample results to look for a trend.

 

[AFD]

It is so easy to get this to 80 psi, happens to me all the time

First hill immediately out of my driveway will usually do it, so I drive a round-about way to let the engine warm up before hitting the same hill a mile away. Occasionally I can slowly creep up the hill while staying ~30 PSI, but it's rare.

Usually do 2 or 3 mid-RPM climbs up some steeper/longer hills on each trip to work, but did a hearty WOT up them today and really got the cat cooking. Usually only do that about once a month, but really think I should be doing it at least once per tank.

 

[Jeep Junkie]

Isn't

Gotta admit this “engineer” post makes me SMH. He’s proud of an engine with such prominent conflicting needs. We “stupidly” spent millions in testing yet wouldn’t address the shortcomings. SMH lol

There’s some redeeming value in it though. It gives some insight for trying to address both problems with the latest lubrication advancements which have come along a fair amount since the design of the engine and even the latest PUG iteration.

It whispers to me “PAO/Ester base oil 0w-40 with the strongest anti-wear additive pack and Star polymer VII available.” Best cold flow, sacrificial layer when the oil boundary layer (Stribeck Curve) film fails, and the strongest shear stability. So spending $80-$100 an oil change for just the oil and change it every 3-5k miles if you don’t test though it will likely go MUCH further than that I’ve read. Some are ridiculous.

Next best thing, quality oil and change it every 3k miles with a quality filter. That’s what I’ve gathered.

Got some HPL PCMO Premium Plus 0w-40 on the way. At the end of the second oil charge I’m considering getting an oil sample sent and requesting sub 5 micron results too. Then I’ll compare that to the next sample results to look for a trend.

Isn't Super Car their flagship? And price is also not very different. Super Car has crazy high Zinc too.
I immediately drained their Super Car 0w30 out after I noticed it took 20 minutes longer to get to the oil pan. That kind of slow flow made me nervous. Pentastar runs hot, and that thick oil won't get rid of the heat fast

 

[The Last Cowboy]

I run all of my engines at wide open throttle on a regular basis, meaning once or twice a week. Don’t confuse running it hard with abusing it. Most engine failures I’ve seen, outside of outright abuse, have been from babied engines full of sludge and carbon.

 

[Jeep Junkie]

I run all of my engines at wide open throttle o a regular basis, meaning once or twice a week. Don’t confuse running it hard with abusing it. Most engine failures I’ve seen, outside of outright abuse, have been from babied engines full of sludge and carbon.

So what is the proper way to do WOT? Here is how I did it.
Coming home on the highway all my temperatures were great, oil temp was 214, I saw steep stretch infront of me, there was no traffic behind me, I slowed down to 40 mph, then gradually started accelerating and then floored it and counted till 10 and then released it. Is that the proper way?

 

[AmericanPatriot100]

Like Joe I also wait until my temps are warm and give her a little WOT once or twice a week. But my 3.45s I’m sure are not a fan of that! This thing is a dog with those gears. And what’s strange is that putting the 35s on it didn’t change the way it drives compared to the stock 245/75/17 highway tires. It was a dog before the big tires and still a dog. But it’s my dog. And I love it!

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