Did Our Bubble Burst?

[ek1]

Ahh, don't be so sure about that...I have owned several BMW's for over 20 years, still have one and a Porsche, too...ALL with manual transmissions...and not only do I "touch a Jeep with a stick" I love driving my JL "with a stick" when I'm not in the Porsche...or BMW. ? I think the "un-livability" of a Wrangler as a daily driver is way overblown, and a misrepresentation, but that's just me. Recently, I had the need to drive my Porsche & JL back-to-back - getting out of one right into the other - and it really hit me just how cool each was - yes quite different from one another, but both very enjoyable to drive - every day! ?

I'm glad I'm not the only one. Also had a bunch of different cars over the years, some 4X+ the cost of the Wrangler. I still have my Range Rover and love driving it. I also love driving the Jeep. Different experiences, both great. I also had some doubts about daily driving a Wrangler after reading some posts here. However, once mine got delivered, I realized that there is absolutely zero issues with driving it daily. Obviously it does not accelerate, turn or brake like a modern crossover with independent suspension and a 500+ HP V8, but how often do you really use that in daily driving? It also does not drive like your living room sofa (it's not plush or quiet). But otherwise it has 90% of the same creature comforts that "luxury" SUVs have. MY24 will even have POWER SEATS! ?

Like many here have said - test driving all the vehicles is a MUST. Best way to do it (although not the cheapest) is Turo. Driving something for a day is pretty much a guaranteed way to know if you're going to love it or hate it. Entire reason I ended my with my Wrangler is - I drove a Gladiator loaner for a month while my Viper was in service.

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[Windshieldfarmer]

If the average new car costs 48k (which I read here), I don’t agree that a loaded 60k JLUR is overpriced. Or that a sport at 40k is overpriced. It’s a different vehicle for sure but I will ditch my Ford Raptor for the fun of the Jeep whenever weather permits. I will agree that I prefer the raptor in snow. I am blessed to be able to have both but if I didn’t need a full size pickup for some of my activities I would choose the wrangler as my only vehicle. Is it refined like a bmw, nope. But it’s built for a different purpose.

I would agree with you except loaded now = $70,000+. That IS overpriced.

 

[entropy]

I’m going to go on a limb here and say math isn’t your strong suit.

oops. Not sure how I came up with that number. A quarter of 32 is 8. 32+8 = 40. So we are talking over 25% increase. And that's assuming I could buy the same jeep for 40k which is very unlikely. So most likely 30%.

Thanks professor, maybe you should call the graduate school engineering department and tell them to revoke my degree. Also feel free to call U.S. patent and trademark office. A crook who makes a math mistake on a public forum should not have patents. I can also give you a list of Journals you can call to make sure they remove my publications.

Make sure you give them your name. They might need you for peer reviewed purposes. Unless you just get off by pointing out mundane errors on public forums.

 

[siggy]

oops. Not sure how I came up with that number. It should be about 25% increase give or take.

Thanks professor, maybe you should call the graduate school engineering department and tell them to revoke my degree. Also feel free to call U.S. patent and trademark office. A crook who makes a math mistake on a public forum should not have patents. I can also give you a list of Journals you can call to make sure they remove my publications.

Make sure you give them your name. They might need you for peer reviewed purposes. Unless you just get off by pointing out mundane errors on public forums.

I see you changed it from 30 to 25%. Third time's a charm? I won't review any of your Journals. I'd hate for your credentials to get stripped. Don't take your anger out on me though. Blame your professors. Or the website you printed your diploma from

It's all in good fun. We could all tell it was an obvious error. Relax. Go drink a beer.

 

[entropy]

I see you changed it from 30 to 25%. Third time's a charm? I won't review any of your Journals. I'd hate for your credentials to get stripped. Don't take your anger out on me though. Blame your professors. Or the website you printed your diploma from

It's all in good fun. We could all tell it was an obvious error. Relax. Go drink a beer.

Nah you clearly have some insecurities.

I rounded to 32 from 31.5. I did not pull a calculator. And buying price could be anywhere from 40 to 50k. so 25%, 30%....

 

[siggy]

Nah you clearly have some insecurities.

I rounded to 32 from 31. I did not pull a calculator. And buying price could be anywhere from 40 to 50k. so 25%, 30%....

No insecurities here! I just thought it was funny how defensive you got. It's Monday. Don't let a little fun get you down for the rest of the week, or it's gonna be a long week!

 

[entropy]

No insecurities here! I just thought it was funny how defensive you got. It's Monday. Don't let a little fun get you down for the rest of the week, or it's gonna be a long week!

Well I guess you got what you wanted.

 

[zrickety]

As said, interest rates, inflation, no one needs a Wrangler like they do family cars or trucks, Jeep is putting as many '23s as possible into inventory so they can get a good head start on 2024s.

Speaking of 2024s, there will be updates and changes to it so many people are holding out for that.

Just from experience, I would avoid the Euro luxury brands unless you are leasing. They are fantastically expense to maintain and repair. Spend $60k on a mid size Mercedes/BMW/Volvo cookie cutter CUV and $60K on a Wrangler. Look at what your resale value will be in 5 years or more. That makes the choice easy. Especially with the Volvo, man those things take a beating in resale price. Plus, since the ChiComs took over, not the car they used to be.

The wife had a Mercedes, it was the bane of my existence.
The 2024 is not desirable to me at all. I use my Jeep as both family car and truck, just toss a utility trailer on the back. Also pulled a modern hatchback on a tow dolly suprisingly well.

 

[The Last Cowboy]

The wife had a Mercedes, it was the bane of my existence.
The 2024 is not desirable to me at all. I use my Jeep as both family car and truck, just toss a utility trailer on the back. Also pulled a modern hatchback on a tow dolly suprisingly well.

Yep, I had one Mercedes, that's enough for me.

A lot of people living in suburbia can get away using a Wrangler for dual purposes. Farmers, ranchers, contractors, fleets etc all need trucks. There is no other option for them, that's why pickup prices are sky high. Many people who need transportation would be better served with a sensible, but boring, family sedan.

That having been said, I'm all for someone driving what ever they want. I don't like the government trying to regulate certain vehilces out of existence, or those who look down their nose at others because they feel somehow superior for choosing whatever Consumer Reports said they should buy.

 

[LayerOne]

Interest rates went up that much.

And the progressive multi year price increase has me thinking twice about upgrading to the 24.

 

[The Last Cowboy]

And the progressive multi year price increase has me thinking twice about upgrading to the 24.

The giant screen and the limited engine/transmission combos are enough to keep me away, unless mine is totaled or stolen. But, to trade for the sake of trading to something newer, nope.

 

[NWJeepr]

The average car price is nearly $50k these days, but that's with expensive luxury vehicles added in. When you look at average transaction prices in the non-luxury segment and try to get to the pricing mean, it's actually closer to 35-40k for non-luxury vehicles. Wranglers and popular configurations (Rubicon) are priced way beyond that. Rising interest rates (5%+ for excellent credit before incentives) and the last few years of steadily rising prices have simply priced a lot of people out of Wrangler territory. It's no so much that a bubble has burst, but Jeep made a bet on market conditions, and those have changed.

I have been looking at a new JL purchase and I find it hard to spend cash on a brand new vehicle when simply letting money sit in a savings account can earn 4%+

I know some of this is time eclipsing me, but I paid $24k for my 2-door Sport S new in 2012, and we also bought a JKUR new for $33k in 2013. The closest equivalents are near $40k, and mid $50k for nearly the same vehicles today. They really haven't changed that much....

 

[aldo98229]

The distinction between luxury and non-luxury ceased to make sense.

Today you can buy a Dodge, Jeep, Ram, Ford or Chevrolet that costs tens of thousands more than an Audi, Cadillac or Lexus.

 

[Deleted member 59498]

Seen a POC of a 2door Rubicon 65.5k MSRP.... ?

Not for me anymore.

 

[NWJeepr]

The distinction between luxury and non-luxury ceased to make sense.

Today you can buy a Dodge, Jeep, Ram, Ford or Chevrolet that costs tens of thousands more than an Audi, Cadillac or Lexus.

Cox Automotive (where I got that data and analyzed it, as part of a post on a different forum) seems to think the distinction is still delineating, mostly from a brand perspective. One can purchase an Audi A4 or a Chevrolet Silverado for about the same price and I'd argue the Silverado is more luxurious from a soft ride, and passenger space perspective, but I digress. I see your point.

Looking at median household income in the US might be a better indicator. Under somewhat conservative financial principles, a $70k Jeep purchase on a median household income is probably more than most people can stomach given other priorities and expenses. Many Jeeps are priced beyond what the average/median household can or "should" realistically afford. Jeep's gone uppity for sure.

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