COVID and Soft tops

emptyminded42

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It is absolutely not the flu. It may be a similar type of virus as the seasonal flu, but it is absolutely not the flu and has different and more severe symptoms, it spreads far more easily and has an order of magnitude more common incidence of severe symptoms and death rate.

Stop spreading falsehoods. It is not the flu. Full stop.





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Spearmin

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So I found this point interesting. As humans, we seem to think that we are able to overcome all problems and challenges. This is true to a large extent, but not 100%.

We are all subject to the laws of nature and there are situations, like this one, where we are spinning our wheels attempting to avoid the inevitable. Here are the rules: (1) this virus is now a permanent resident of planet earth; (2) the virus is airborne and infects humans resulting in respiratory disease; (3) the virus has a specific rate of infection, specific means of infection and specific mortality rate; (4) certain populations are more susceptible to the virus and will die. We would need to change the rules of nature for this agent to expect a different outcome. Feeble attempts like wearing masks and stay-at-home orders are, at best, only delaying the game from being played. If you want to change the game, you need to somehow change the rules. For example: discover a miracle therapeutic; change human susceptibility by developing a highly effective and safe vaccine; change the virulence through genetic mutation/modification of the virus.

I keep telling friends and family that they need to accept the fact that they will be exposed to the virus and unfortunately, there is very little that the everyday person can do to influence the outcome of that exposure.

My background: geneticist and microbiologist for 28 years. Worked in and managed a high-security biocontainment facility for over 10 years with infectious agents including SARS, HIV, TB, HCV, HBV, WNV. I know what it takes to protect myself, family and general public.... and I'm not wearing a mask for COVID.
So are you suggesting that we all just go out and roll those dice now? Either we get it and live, or get it and die (basically pr-determined), so there is no point in trying to avoid it. Drop the hand sanitizer, drop the cleaning, and of course drop the mask.
 

madscientist

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So are you suggesting that we all just go out and roll those dice now? Either we get it and live, or get it and die (basically pr-determined), so there is no point in trying to avoid it. Drop the hand sanitizer, drop the cleaning, and of course drop the mask.
Hi Spearmin, I'm not suggesting we give up, but we all need to come to terms that the dice will be rolled for each of us. Each person's fate is, to some extent, built into their genes and biology (blood type, racial background, current state of health, age). We have a 81 yr old friend who had 2 heart attacks last year, she was tested positive after saying she felt like she had a head cold. Your 38 yr old friend, with no known health issues, battles the virus. Their stories seem reversed. We don't know why yet.

Good hygiene is never a bad idea, but hygiene is not a primary control for this agent. You don't catch it from dirty water (cholera) or contaminated surfaces (E.coli). We should all be following mother's instructions to cover your mouth when you sneeze or cough; stay home when you are feeling sick; wash your hands... these are everyday precautions and good habits.
 
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Gee-pah

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"You know, it's a forum."

This is what I find myself saying as an inner monologue to some things I see on internet forums. Certainly this forum is neither immune (no pun intended) from people who post irresponsible, misleading or hurtful content, nor by any means is it the only.

Let's suppose @TEXGOAT that COVID-19, or if you prefer SARS COVID-2 (same thing) is technically, from a molecular standpoint, an influenza (i.e. a flu) virus.

For the record, I don't know, nor for the most part do I care, nor should others, except to the extent that we can extract information from past flus on how to fight it.

I suppose I could talk about how this being a Coronavirus (Corona: crown) it has pointy nodules, but such things, like how you name it, are likely best left for the scientists looking to create inoculations that encapsulate or destroy this crown in the hopes of rendering it harmless.

Otherwise, such rhetoric, like yours above is irresponsible crap.

Focus instead needs to lie on how it behaves. From this we better understand how to fight it, treat it, and be ready for some of the other things in brings on it the affected, like Kawasaki's disease (no, not a motorcycle). In this regard, it kills more than most flus we know, there is no prophylactic (and no, that doesn't mean condom here) vaccine each year that represents the best guess of its form from the previous winter in Australia, and it is far more asymptomatic, which makes spread far more likely.

You're right, we do need to deal with it. We have to slowly and methodically open society, as balance has to be made between its morbidity and that caused by a dormant economy. But some of your ideas, like not wearing a mask are downright selfish and contradictory to apolitical scientific policy. The mask is for others more than you.

And when people talk about the harm it's causing children being out of school, effected less by it, I feel need to remind them that the operative word in "public health" is public. These kids are out of school in part because of the asymptomatic way they can spread it to those more likely to be hurt by it.

Simply labeling it a flu can create images in people's minds of its lack of severity. And no, I'm not calling for masks being worn in vehicles driven alone.

It's as stupid as calling cutaneous anthrax: a skin disorder highly survivable often without intervention, and "anthrax" (internal Bacillus anthracis) the same thing because they both incorporate the word anthrax.

If not wearing a mask is some freedom thing to you, get down on your knees and thank the scientists who told you to wear it, and do so. They are making hard choices that balance a minor inconvenience (to your freedom) with the ultimate one: your life, and the lives of others.
 

Spearmin

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Hi Spearmin, I'm not suggesting we give up, but we all need to come to terms that the dice will be rolled for each of us. Each person's fate is, to some extent, built into their genes and biology (blood type, racial background, current state of health, age). We have a 81 yr old friend who had 2 heart attacks last year, she was tested positive after saying she felt like she had a head cold. Your 38 yr old friend, with no known health issues, battles the virus. Their stories seem reversed. We don't know why yet.

Good hygiene is never a bad idea, but hygiene is not a primary control for this agent. You don't catch it from dirty water (cholera) or contaminated surfaces (E.coli). We should all be following mother's instructions to cover your mouth when you sneeze or cough; stay home when you are feeling sick; wash your hands... these are everyday precautions and good habits.
Hmm.. I tend to see it a little differently. Such as, we do our absolute damndest to preserver as many lives/loved ones as possible until someone comes up with a true combatant to this virus. Otherwise, just stop all the research, and go with the dice approach. With that approach soon we will all (each and every one of us ) be a nation/world of survivors because the non-survivors will be in the ground. ......nahhh I'm on the side of fight, be responsible, preserver lives.

Theoretical physics can also prove that an elephant can hang off a cliff with its tail tied to a daisy! But use your eyes, your common sense. (Kevin Costner from the Movie JFK)
 

elf883

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are we there yet ?
 

DizzyIzzy

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Hi Spearmin, I'm not suggesting we give up, but we all need to come to terms that the dice will be rolled for each of us. Each person's fate is, to some extent, built into their genes and biology (blood type, racial background, current state of health, age). We have a 81 yr old friend who had 2 heart attacks last year, she was tested positive after saying she felt like she had a head cold. Your 38 yr old friend, with no known health issues, battles the virus. Their stories seem reversed. We don't know why yet.

Good hygiene is never a bad idea, but hygiene is not a primary control for this agent. You don't catch it from dirty water (cholera) or contaminated surfaces (E.coli). We should all be following mother's instructions to cover your mouth when you sneeze or cough; stay home when you are feeling sick; wash your hands... these are everyday precautions and good habits.
I'm curious to know where you got the information that it doesn't survive on surfaces?
 

madscientist

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Hmm.. I tend to see it a little differently. Such as, we do our absolute damndest to preserver as many lives/loved ones as possible until someone comes up with a true combatant to this virus. Otherwise, just stop all the research, and go with the dice approach. With that approach soon we will all (each and every one of us ) be a nation/world of survivors because the non-survivors will be in the ground. ......nahhh I'm on the side of fight, be responsible, preserver lives.

Theoretical physics can also prove that an elephant can hang off a cliff with its tail tied to a daisy! But use your eyes, your common sense. (Kevin Costner from the Movie JFK)
Hi Spearmin, I'm glad you are being conscientious and trying to do your best as you see it. You need to live with your conscience as do each of us. The only way to eliminate the risk (do our damnest to preserve lives) is to put people in hermetically sealed bubbles. LIfe entails risk- we've all faced these risks since the minute we were conceived.... every second narrowly avoiding certain death. In some cases we can shift the balance through our actions. I do not believe the actions being taken now are accomplishing anything close to preserving lives.

BTW, beware of using ill-specified "masks" made of various cloths, papers, and other textiles. The N95 mask is the only mask designed and tested to stop the penetration of respiratory aerosols. All of the others are window-dressing. I tell you this so that you can make sure to buy and wear the right mask to achieve your objectives. Good luck partner.
 

madscientist

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I'm curious to know where you got the information that it doesn't survive on surfaces?
HI DIzzyIzzy, I didn't say the virus doesn't survive on surfaces. I may not have been entirely clear originally. Contaminated surfaces do not appear to be a significant route of infection for this virus. Yes, you can get the virus on your fingers, then pick your nose or touch the inside of your throat, and allow the virus to penetrate the nonspecific immune system. I'm certainly not going around licking doorknobs.
 

Spearmin

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Hi Spearmin, I'm glad you are being conscientious and trying to do your best as you see it. You need to live with your conscience as do each of us. The only way to eliminate the risk (do our damnest to preserve lives) is to put people in hermetically sealed bubbles. LIfe entails risk- we've all faced these risks since the minute we were conceived.... every second narrowly avoiding certain death. In some cases we can shift the balance through our actions. I do not believe the actions being taken now are accomplishing anything close to preserving lives.

BTW, beware of using ill-specified "masks" made of various cloths, papers, and other textiles. The N95 mask is the only mask designed and tested to stop the penetration of respiratory aerosols. All of the others are window-dressing. I tell you this so that you can make sure to buy and wear the right mask to achieve your objectives. Good luck partner.
Yup... Bought mine back in January when they were plentiful, and I knew the virus was coming. Also bought bleach, hand sanitizer, disinfectant spray, and the ever elusive toilet paper. So yeah I'm good "scientist".
 
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DizzyIzzy

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HI DIzzyIzzy, I didn't say the virus doesn't survive on surfaces. I may not have been entirely clear originally. Contaminated surfaces do not appear to be a significant route of infection for this virus. Yes, you can get the virus on your fingers, then pick your nose or touch the inside of your throat, and allow the virus to penetrate the nonspecific immune system. I'm certainly not going around licking doorknobs.
I'm glad you don't lick doorknobs. Otherwise, it would be difficult to explain that fetish to someone. :LOL:
 

DWaX

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Remove doors, remove top, breath in as much fresh air as you can. This is a Corona preventative measure.
The last thing you want to do is breath old interior air, in fact if you do drive sealed in turn your AC re-circulation to OFF! to get outside air.

WaX
 

Geronimo

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I try to drink as much Gin & Tonic as possible with the doors and top off. The Gin is a great disinfectant and the Tonic has prophylactic qualities in that it contains quinine. I also have come to find out that the "nosing" of my cigars is a great way to block the receptors in the nose.

I just want to be safe while enjoying what my Jeep and Life in the great outdoors has to offer.
 

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