Cold climate = no go

[sconrad24]

May want to check again , there seems to be some back and forth . Didn't pay attention to the name of the thread but it is more than a couple of pages .

Theres alot of them lol.

Sponsored

 

[mllcb42]

I don't know how many here also follow another forum called the 4xe forum . There are alot of posts from our canadian brothers and sisters that are having issues in their cold winter climate as winter is setting in and how it is effecting their experience with this platform . As a point of reference , I thought I would point that out .

Let's use an example from that thread to highlight my point.

There's one poster that has been talking a lot about going in and out of FORM and has a laundry list of complaints. Some may be valid, some are a misunderstanding of how the vehicle operates.

For example, among his first post, he stated

Sunday morning storm and -25 Celsius. Plugged in all night. Remote start, gas engine fires up.
Refuses to go into electric mode. This time, no reason. Got home, shut down. Says plug in for battery conditioning?!?

What he is upset about is coming back and parking the vehicle in the cold and it telling him to plug in for battery conditioning. He is using this as an example of the vehicle misbehaving.

What is actually happening here is the vehicle doing exactly what it says it will do in the owner's manual. During very cold weather, it prompts you to plug in the vehicle to keep the battery conditioned.

It's a misalignment of expectations based on presumptions and reality.


Now, that isn't to say that all of his complaints aren't valid, just that a lot of complaints are simply a matter of ignorance to the proper functionality.

 

[2018JLRUSellersremorse]

Yes, many of them are having issues with the vehicle not performing as they think it should perform rather than how it is supposed to perform.

That is more indicative of a communication issue with Jeep than it is a technical issue.

In cold weather, one isn't always going to be able to run in pure electric. That's inconsistent with how some people want to use the vehicle but isn't necessarily inconsistent with how the vehicle is supposed to be used. Yes, there is an efficiency hit that goes along with that. There's an efficiency hit with diesels in the cold too. And people put winter tires on to adapt to the cold, etc. (The point being that everyone changes how they use their vehicle to adapt to the environment, no matter what engine)

Should the dealership have better communicated that to someone shopping a 4xe in thise climates? Absolutely. Everyone should be aware of how the item behaves in different conditions.

That's not the same thing as saying that the vehicle doesn't work in the cold and it is not the same thing as saying that there isn't a net fuel/emissions savings using the vehicle in those environments.

There are some people that are having genuine issues but there are a lot of people passing off the vehicle functioning as designed as issues because it isn't doing what they think it should do.

You have explained this over and over and in different ways. You have tried but it won't sink in for some people.

 

[Zandcwhite]

solar battery banks are great especially for off-grid use....they are not common in suburban and urban homes by any means. They are much more expensive, take up more room in the house (especially if they are the sole energy source) and have a shelf-life that makes it not at all economical for the common suburban/urban house.

Im a licensed architect with over 25 years experience, im very openminded to new technology and using less waste, and if you've read my previous comments like you've claimed i haven't...you'd see that i think EV is a fantastic niche product for dense cities and that my problem is government mandates for nationwide application and termination of gas vehicles.

as seen in cold weather conditions/areas from this thread...these EVs are potentially dangerous to people who may be stranded or unable to use in emergency conditions.

I agreed with you on both those points, I think their time line is too agressive and the government mandates are bullshit. Being that I do work in the silicon Valley, as an electrician for the last 25 years, my view of the adoption and commonality of energy storage is probably leaned toward the more cutting edge. I've installed multiple commercial level energy storage systems for Google, dupont, and Adobe and personally know dozens of people who have them in their homes. If I were in the market for a commuter car (company cmaxx means I am not), it would be hard not to go electric at this point. ~150 miles per day my gas bill would be astronomical at current $5/gal local prices. Factor in tax incentives on the vehicle, the solar, and the energy storage and the fact that the installation would be free and components would be at cost and I'd be in the black out the gate vs an ice vehicle. Fortunately there have been zero sub zero days here in the last 20 years, so that cold weather concern doesn't exist here. I definitely don't see EV's as the be all end all, but they are a step in the right direction. Who doesn't like a 2 second 0-60 anyway?

 

[The_Irish_Weaver]

I agreed with you on both those points, I think their time line is too agressive and the government mandates are bullshit. Being that I do work in the silicon Valley, as an electrician for the last 25 years, my view of the adoption and commonality of energy storage is probably leaned toward the more cutting edge. I've installed multiple commercial level energy storage systems for Google, dupont, and Adobe and personally know dozens of people who have them in their homes. If I were in the market for a commuter car (company cmaxx means I am not), it would be hard not to go electric at this point. ~150 miles per day my gas bill would be astronomical at current $5/gal local prices. Factor in tax incentives on the vehicle, the solar, and the energy storage and the fact that the installation would be free and components would be at cost and I'd be in the black out the gate vs an ice vehicle. Fortunately there have been zero sub zero days here in the last 20 years, so that cold weather concern doesn't exist here. I definitely don't see EV's as the be all end all, but they are a step in the right direction. Who doesn't like a 2 second 0-60 anyway?

one of the saying that i love the most in life is "i dont care what you do - just dont make me pay for it"

its very unfair how its all been crowbarred and implemented on a legislative level....i see how in certain situations its a benefit, and others its just a luxury -

the one thing im personally terrified of is the extinction of the manual transmission in all this....thats where i draw the line

 

[Zandcwhite]

one of the saying that i love the most in life is "i dont care what you do - just dont make me pay for it"

its very unfair how its all been crowbarred and implemented on a legislative level....i see how in certain situations its a benefit, and others its just a luxury -

the one thing im personally terrified of is the extinction of the manual transmission in all this....thats where i draw the line

My buddy has a Saab that he converted to electric, complete with the manual trans. It is a weird driving experience. Stop in gear, no clutch take offs, so much torque you never need 1st gear and rarely 2nd. Around town just leave it in 3rd and cruise around.

 

[Hennessey17]

I'm wondering because my BEV had a huge range hit when it was below 50. The 30s saw nearly a 50% reduction due to having to heat the battery. Luckily we don't get many days like that in Phoenix. With the ICE of the 4xe, I'm wondering if it'll see the same kind of reduction, or if it will just run the ICE under a certain temp to keep the battery warm.

My dad drives a Tesla and goes back and forth between his two homes in suburban Chicago and Wisconsin... this is his 7th winter with it... he loses about 80 miles of range at the coldest... it 's about the same for ICE in the same weather.... my VW Tiguan gets about 14 mpg in city driving in the winter and it's a 4 cyl turbo.

 

[WannFly]

Here I have driven mine for 10K miles now and this jeep as been flawless. no issue since day one. Happy with range and how the truck behave in general as an hybrid. Live in canada and we have temperature around 15f since a couple a days / weeks when leaving for work in the morning. The jeep perform as I would expect from an intelligent PHEV... ICE kick at startup for couples of minutes to warm things up and goes back to complete EV after so the hit on range look to be less than what I experienced on other vehicule. I would have loved to have my BMW I3 REX to kick in to warm thing up and switch to EV afterward... But it wasn't designed that way...

little side stepping from the topic.. but which roofrack is that? looks like you have a RTT on it?

 

[BXFXJeep]

The EV scheme isn't about getting people to buy EVs instead of ICE, it's really about getting people out of private cars, and on to city buses, bicycles and walking

Private vehicles will be for the few usual suspects, like the ones that drive 20 miles in a SUV, and bike the last 100 yards for the camera.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/the-economics-of-electric-vehicles/

 

[Zandcwhite]

The EV scheme isn't about getting people to buy EVs instead of ICE, it's really about getting people out of private cars, and on to city buses, bicycles and walking

Private vehicles will be for the few usual suspects, like the ones that drive 20 miles in a SUV, and bike the last 100 yards for the camera.

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/the-economics-of-electric-vehicles/

That article doesn’t reflect your statement much at all. Hours to charge an EV at a charging station? Try 15-20 minutes. Most Americans can’t charge at home? If you live in an apartment maybe (although most new apartmen buildings have chargers in the parking garages)? Most don’t have garages or driveways, or those spaces are dedicated to another use? Where do you park then? Put a charger in your driveway if the garage is “dedicated to another use”? At least with EV’s you have the option to charge at home. Even with a standard wall outlet adapter, most of us are home long enough to charge even at that trickle rate. Even with my 5 hour commute I’m still home 11-12 hours a day, 100% of which could be spent charging if need be (of course a couple hundred dollars for a level 2 charger cuts the needed charge time down to 3-5 hours, so even a tweaker will have enough down time to charge at home). Either that article is old, or it is just another misinformation peace spreading fear of change.

 

[BXFXJeep]

That article doesn’t reflect your statement much at all. Hours to charge an EV at a charging station? Try 15-20 minutes. Most Americans can’t charge at home? If you live in an apartment maybe (although most new apartmen buildings have chargers in the parking garages)? Most don’t have garages or driveways, or those spaces are dedicated to another use? Where do you park then? Put a charger in your driveway if the garage is “dedicated to another use”? At least with EV’s you have the option to charge at home. Even with a standard wall outlet adapter, most of us are home long enough to charge even at that trickle rate. Even with my 5 hour commute I’m still home 11-12 hours a day, 100% of which could be spent charging if need be (of course a couple hundred dollars for a level 2 charger cuts the needed charge time down to 3-5 hours, so even a tweaker will have enough down time to charge at home). Either that article is old, or it is just another misinformation peace spreading fear of change.

I'm in Toronto, almost no apartment or condos have chargers.

A handful of buildings with chargers end up with fist fights because people hogging the one or two chargers

In urban centres, a very large population live in multi dwelling, in my condo building, it cost over $3,500 to install a level 2 charger, zero option for level 1 plug.

Of the 400+ parking spots the building can only handle 30 chargers, where only 10 can be active at the same time.

 

[GETLAF]

little side stepping from the topic.. but which roofrack is that? looks like you have a RTT on it?

Hey, yeah there is a hardshell RTT and the Rack is the combo 24'' - 60'' from deezee. i went with this option as I didnt wanted to drill through the hard top.

 

[Zandcwhite]

I'm in Toronto, almost no apartment or condos have chargers.

A handful of buildings with chargers end up with fist fights because people hogging the one or two chargers

In urban centres, a very large population live in multi dwelling, in my condo building, it cost over $3,500 to install a level 2 charger, zero option for level 1 plug.

Of the 400+ parking spots the building can only handle 30 chargers, where only 10 can be active at the same time.

I agree that it doesn’t work for everyone, especially not yet. It is kind of strange to me that people who live in high density, rental housing are concerned about the quasi-push for you to not own a car. You are willing to not own the ground or structure you live in, but draw the line at a car? I’m not giving up either, but if all transportation became public driverless ride sharing I’d get on board with that before I gave up my home. Many people who live in cities don’t own cars, property, or much else for that matter, to each his own I guess. If you live in a downtown apartment and still have a commute long enough that daily or even weekly charging is a concern, I think you are doing it wrong. Do you commute from down town out into the country for work? There’s a reason so many of us do the opposite, but I can’t think of 1 reason to commute out of town?

 

[Slaw32]

I agree that it doesn’t work for everyone, especially not yet. It is kind of strange to me that people who live in high density, rental housing are concerned about the quasi-push for you to not own a car. You are willing to not own the ground or structure you live in, but draw the line at a car? I’m not giving up either, but if all transportation became public driverless ride sharing I’d get on board with that before I gave up my home. Many people who live in cities don’t own cars, property, or much else for that matter, to each his own I guess. If you live in a downtown apartment and still have a commute long enough that daily or even weekly charging is a concern, I think you are doing it wrong. Do you commute from down town out into the country for work? There’s a reason so many of us do the opposite, but I can’t think of 1 reason to commute out of town?

Pretty sure people that live in the middle of a major metro area don't have a choice to own property in the traditional sense .

 

[Zandcwhite]

Pretty sure people that live in the middle of a major metro area don't have a choice to own property in the traditional sense .

I understand that, but how on earth are they using up an EV's 2-300 mile range everyday necessitating daily charging? The point of living in a major metro downtown is that everything is within a few blocks isn't it?

Sponsored