Cold Climate 4xe Ownership

CJ SCION

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Getting close to the decision on a new Wrangler and wondering about keeping the 4xe vehicles tethered to an outlet in unheated parking. In the case here, vehicle use is no more than several time per week on errands and such. We experience, during a rough winter, some consecutive days below zero F and many days below freezing. To keep a healthy state of the battery packs requires heating and cooling, according to the owner manual. Without any real science to prove it, I am thinking the savings of going to electric fuel could be lost to the heating requirements of a cold winter.

Has anyone else considered this in their cold climate location?





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cutandrun

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Getting close to the decision on a new Wrangler and wondering about keeping the 4xe vehicles tethered to an outlet in unheated parking. In the case here, vehicle use is no more than several time per week on errands and such. We experience, during a rough winter, some consecutive days below zero F and many days below freezing. To keep a healthy state of the battery packs requires heating and cooling, according to the owner manual. Without any real science to prove it, I am thinking the savings of going to electric fuel could be lost to the heating requirements of a cold winter.

Has anyone else considered this in their cold climate location?
Two considerations:

1. The batteries are inside the passenger compartment, so as you heat the vehicle for your own comfort, you will also be heating the batteries.

2. From my experience with lithium ion batteries on my motorcycles, they heat up as you draw current. On a cold morning, they may not initially start the bike, but each successive try warms them up and they deliver more juice.

Cold weather and batteries are not usually good partners. I’m certain there are EV/PHEV owners here who can give you even better info.
 

Asterix2112

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As one who has had electric cars for years now, temperature is a huge thing for range. My BMW i3 in summer would get me to work and back (60 miles) on the 80 mile rated battery no problem. In winter the range extender would always kick in before I got home. Expect 1/3 of your range to be gone in a nice summer day vs below freezing winter day.
 

BTA

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As one who has had electric cars for years now, temperature is a huge thing for range. My BMW i3 in summer would get me to work and back (60 miles) on the 80 mile rated battery no problem. In winter the range extender would always kick in before I got home. Expect 1/3 of your range to be gone in a nice summer day vs below freezing winter day.

Admittedly my first EV, but according to my friends who own EVs and from what I've read, the range reduction mentioned above is the greatest issue to consider consideration, starting an EV is an equal or lesser issue than an ICE.
 

GT2529

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Cold actually is good for longevity on batteries, but bad on efficiency. Hot weather on the other hand will destroy a battery's longevity. So long as you pre-condition the vehicle (remote start it, or warm it up), before you drive, the battery will be warmed up for operating temps and can be driven more efficiently. It's always helpful to have it plugged in when parked, so you have full range for your trip and for when you remote start the vehicle, you are drawing on electricity instead of gas to warm up the car. I'm not sure about savings - that would depend on your electric bill rates. I think it would cost less than warming up the vehicle on gas only, not to mention the savings from not driving errands with gas.
 
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CJ SCION

CJ SCION

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Thank you all for your response so far. Yeah I get the performance end of it and expect some reduction in efficiency at extreme temps.

What I would be concerned with is having it plugged in 24/7 while parked and not knowing how much draw will occur. As in 3 days of single or below zero F temps to travel 25 miles one day and then let it sit for another 3 days drawing juice. Might not be such an economical way to go. Knowing such a scenario will only happen during a two month period is a consideration too.
 
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CJ SCION

CJ SCION

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Two considerations:

1. The batteries are inside the passenger compartment, so as you heat the vehicle for your own comfort, you will also be heating the batteries.

2. From my experience with lithium ion batteries on my motorcycles, they heat up as you draw current. On a cold morning, they may not initially start the bike, but each successive try warms them up and they deliver more juice.

Cold weather and batteries are not usually good partners. I’m certain there are EV/PHEV owners here who can give you even better info.
Very interesting about your experience with starting the motorcycle. There is quite a variety of electric motorcycles now, have ya seen the Brutus V9? Not yet available but looks pretty cool.
 

GT2529

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Thank you all for your response so far. Yeah I get the performance end of it and expect some reduction in efficiency at extreme temps.

What I would be concerned with is having it plugged in 24/7 while parked and not knowing how much draw will occur. As in 3 days of single or below zero F temps to travel 25 miles one day and then let it sit for another 3 days drawing juice. Might not be such an economical way to go. Knowing such a scenario will only happen during a two month period is a consideration too.
My guess is that for cold weather, it will only draw power when you remote start and pre-condition. For hot weather, the AC will probably kick on while plugged in, to protect the battery from getting too hot. With cold, I think they figure since it's not damaging to the battery, it can just be warmed up like other cars, so it only needs to draw power and heat when warming up to condition the battery for a trip.
 

Bkenyon53

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Cold actually is good for longevity on batteries, but bad on efficiency. Hot weather on the other hand will destroy a battery's longevity. So long as you pre-condition the vehicle (remote start it, or warm it up), before you drive, the battery will be warmed up for operating temps and can be driven more efficiently. It's always helpful to have it plugged in when parked, so you have full range for your trip and for when you remote start the vehicle, you are drawing on electricity instead of gas to warm up the car. I'm not sure about savings - that would depend on your electric bill rates. I think it would cost less than warming up the vehicle on gas only, not to mention the savings from not driving errands with gas.
I hadn’t even thought of that. You can remote-start with the vehicle plugged in?
 

MassMopar

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Thank you all for your response so far. Yeah I get the performance end of it and expect some reduction in efficiency at extreme temps.

What I would be concerned with is having it plugged in 24/7 while parked and not knowing how much draw will occur. As in 3 days of single or below zero F temps to travel 25 miles one day and then let it sit for another 3 days drawing juice. Might not be such an economical way to go. Knowing such a scenario will only happen during a two month period is a consideration too.
I have the same concern. If it's plugged in overnight charging when it's 20F out, is it also keeping the batteries conditioned all night? What if it's fully charged, will it keep drawing power to keep the batteries warm 24x7?

I would also like to know exactly how the remote start is programmed to deal with
-Remote starting while plugged in (possible?)
-Remote starting while below 32F - Does the ICE start and heat the cabin like a regular JL, or does it use battery power to preheat the cab/turn on heated seats/condition the battery?
 

Sboden

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I have the same concern. If it's plugged in overnight charging when it's 20F out, is it also keeping the batteries conditioned all night? What if it's fully charged, will it keep drawing power to keep the batteries warm 24x7?

I would also like to know exactly how the remote start is programmed to deal with
-Remote starting while plugged in (possible?)
-Remote starting while below 32F - Does the ICE start and heat the cabin like a regular JL, or does it use battery power to preheat the cab/turn on heated seats/condition the battery?
When I get home and open the garage door, I'll hit remote start and see what happens when plugged in. The ICE doesn't need to be running for heat and cold as they are both electric.
 

SnB4xe

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When I get home and open the garage door, I'll hit remote start and see what happens when plugged in. The ICE doesn't need to be running for heat and cold as they are both electric.
I suspect the PTC heater isn't sized appropriately to condition the battery and cabin at very low ambient temps. If so, that explains why this vehicle doesn't have a departure time scheduling feature like every other plug in vehicle that I am aware of.

At moderate temps, remote starting with climate control may work on electric only (provided it has sufficient charge or it's plugged in).
At very low ambient temps, remote starting may start the ICE to create the necessary heat.
Or.....maybe the HVAC is disabled during remote start at low temps.

We probably won't know for sure until winter comes around again. It's probably no accident that Jeep waited until spring to start delivering these vehicles..... :)
 

Sboden

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I suspect the PTC heater isn't sized appropriately to condition the battery and cabin at very low ambient temps. If so, that explains why this vehicle doesn't have a departure time scheduling feature like every other plug in vehicle that I am aware of.

At moderate temps, remote starting with climate control may work on electric only (provided it has sufficient charge or it's plugged in).
At very low ambient temps, remote starting may start the ICE to create the necessary heat.
Or.....maybe the HVAC is disabled during remote start at low temps.

We probably won't know for sure until winter comes around again. It's probably no accident that Jeep waited until spring to start delivering these vehicles..... :)
If it is plugged in and the heater and air conditioner is all electric, how would the ICE help by being turned on?
 

SnB4xe

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If it is plugged in and the heater and air conditioner is all electric, how would the ICE help by being turned on?
There are two heaters. An electric one that appears to be quite small and a internal combustion one that is 2.0 liters and makes tons of heat as a by product of operation.

If it is very cold out, then the electric one might not be able to do the job so starting the ICE would do the trick.

So, that is likely why these Jeeps don't have a Departure schedule for pre-conditioning. Because starting the ICE in an enclosed garage would be very dangerous.

I don't know what wattage the electric heater is though. I will find out. I have only seen the unit and it appears quite small compared to other manufacturers devices.
 

Sboden

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Interesting as no one has pointed out the ICE heater.
 

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