Cold Air Intake hogwash

[2nd 392]

Yeah, Ram Air, or “Bug Catcher” as we used to call them…. My Jeep has something similar,
I sure hope that water diverting gizmo flushes them out, at least with the water.

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[yokramer]

Being able to open the box of a new OEM filter and slapping it in without blowing it out and washing it is nicer.

However Ive already paid off the one in the Jeep compared to buying filters over and over and over especially with how often I get off road.

 

[Terrymo]

However Ive already paid off the one in the Jeep compared to buying filters over and over and over especially with how often I get off road.

I guess I’m just lazier than you

 

[yokramer]

I guess I’m just lazier than you

Its not that much work, take it out when you get home, throw it at the ground a few times, run water over it until it runs clear and make sure there is no debris left and pop it back in. Itll be dry by morning and drive something else if you need to.

Its not one of oiled ones cause those are stupid.

 

[yokramer]

The dry flow version, I think I paid like $30-40 3 years ago. Edit, just looked it up paid $22.99 from Walmart.

K&N SA-5076 Replacement Air Filter

 

[rickinAZ]

All of this can be said about catbacks as well: both mods are all bling/sound with no performance increase.

 

[yokramer]

All of this can be said about catbacks as well: both mods are all bling/sound with no performance increase.

The upside of the catback on the JL is clearance rather than engine performance.

 

[jbcrane]

I do wish I could get that groovy new air box in the JL, with the embossed Utah/Delicate Arch emblems on it... and I like the look of the vented hood. But no way I'd ever cut it - or suffer the ill-effects that come with it.
Nope... not gonna do it...
Wouldn't be prudent.

 

[jadmt]

I have yet to hear a 3.6 cat back sound good in person...sure from the driver's seat some sound good but if you are following them or they drive by they don't sound good....I have never actually heard a CAI on the 3.6. kind of like when I would have my stereo cranked on my EG and RG and I would be thinking man this sounds good but in reality everyone else was like that sounds like shit lol....

 

[Terrymo]

The dry flow version, I think I paid like $30-40 3 years ago. Edit, just looked it up paid $22.99 from Walmart.

K&N SA-5076 Replacement Air Filter

Ok I better not be disappointed. $50 shipped it’s worth a try I guess since I replace my OEM filter every 3k miles. Plus save the planet and all.

 

[LSJKU]

The ”cold air intake“ claims have been discussed a lot over the years....

I've been researching this very topic for the Jeep 3.6L before I have Brad @bmpcamry09 tune my 2025 JL 6-spd. As background, I reference this thread: https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...18-26-jl-3-6-non-etorque-models.164496/page-8

And this is what Traveller128 shares in this thread:

On the 3.6, there is a difference in power, you can see it on a dyno graph or when tuning. But, it's in the upper RPM range where the stock filter starts to restrict a bit. It's 8-12 HP, but it's there....

You can easily bolt on an intake without doing a tune. We're talking a small percentage of improvement here, 10 HP more at the wheels is under 5%, which a stock ECM can compensate for. Will a tune improve gains? A little. You'll get a volumetric efficiency bump up high that a tuner can take advantage of. But a tune will improve it everywhere from bottom to top and regain lost power the OEM tune is moderating for torque limiting. The key is, you need an intake that drops inlet temps a bit or doesn't cause an increase in them over stock. If the temps are higher than stock, it will mitigate the flow gains.
With a tune, you'll see it optimized for the install, including exhaust and intake if you modified them.

This is what I have learned as well, from tuning experience with my Raptor. It's all about heat management; colder plugs, relocated intercooler, etc. And I suspected it was something similar with the Jeep, so I reached out to @bmpcamry09 before he tunes my 3.6L. His response from a tuning standpoint:

I’ve done a couple with CAI and yes they do seem to make a little difference with overall air flow, BUT intake air temps creep up a bit more with them which pulls timing, so it’s about a wash.

That said, I didn't waste $400 plus on a CAI for my Raptor when I can put that money into Garrett Turbos and bolt on 700+ HP over a weekend, with the stock air intake and exhaust (turbo exhaust ports are the bottleneck on my Raptor). Doesn't make any sense.

Same story for the Jeep 3.6L. I'll save the $$$ spend on a CAI for the Jeep and put it into an HPTuners MPVI4, 4-GSPEC5 credits and VCM software. Maybe even the B&M shifter Traveller128 recommends (link please). The minimal HP/Torque increase at the top of the RPM range from the CAI will not be missed.

Do yourself a favor and skip the CAI. Every 3.6L, 6spd owner contemplating a CAI should be researching Brad's tune instead.

Mr. Whaler27, thanks for sharing this technical information and confirming what I already thought but now know for sure. It didn't save me any $$$ but it sure helped me spend it the right way. My Jeep oil thanks you as well.

 

[bmpcamry09]

@LSJKU i was actually going to comment on this thread and throw my thoughts in even though I think this may reference the diesel crowd. But A few of my 3.6 customers I’ve tuned for do in fact have cold air intakes. The data in the datalogs won’t lie.

On every one, the aircharge (measured in milligrams) that the engine is taking in is marginally better on the makes with cold air intakes. And by marginally better, I mean maybe 20-40 MG better. For reference, at high load or WOT, air charge will hover around 600-720 MG depending on atmospheric conditions.

That said, intake air temperatures are usually higher. These pull timing dramatically once’s air intake temps go above about 80-90 degrees. There is a spark timing modifier within the tuning that pulls timing as intake air temps go up and it can pull as much as 10 degrees of timing. For reference, you gain or lose about 3-5 horsepower for every degree of timing.

Speculation, but I think part of the reason the Ram trucks with the v6 have a higher HP rating is because under hood temps are managed better and they heat soak less since the intake inlet is so much farther back from the radiator. Unlike these that basically rest on the radiator. There are no mechanical differences in the engine and very little differences in the tuning.

It really truly is about heat management, and a high flow filter in the factory air box is in my opinion the best option.

 

[LSJKU]

I have yet to hear a 3.6 cat back sound good in person...sure from the driver's seat some sound good but if you are following them or they drive by they don't sound good....I have never actually heard a CAI on the 3.6. kind of like when I would have my stereo cranked on my EG and RG and I would be thinking man this sounds good but in reality everyone else was like that sounds like shit lol....

I've never heard a good sounding 3.6L cat-back either (or CAI for that matter). Jeepers continually try to get V8 sound out of a 6-cylinder engine and it just ain't gonna happen. Waste of good money. Back in the day, I used to post videos of my LSJKU and say 'if you want V8 sound, swap a V8 in." Now you can buy a 392 MOAB and be done with it out of the starting gate.

That said, I did replace the bulky stock muffler on my JL with an MBRP straight pipe the second day I owned it. Not for better sound, but only to get some ground clearance and auditory/exhaust feedback in the cab. It's not overkill, but it does allow me to pick shift points much easier. I'm sure it sounds like shit to everyone else, but I don't care. It works for my needs.

 

[LSJKU]

@LSJKU i was actually going to comment on this thread and throw my thoughts in even though I think this may reference the diesel crowd. But A few of my 3.6 customers I’ve tuned for do in fact have cold air intakes. The data in the datalogs won’t lie.

On every one, the aircharge (measured in milligrams) that the engine is taking in is marginally better on the makes with cold air intakes. And by marginally better, I mean maybe 20-40 MG better. For reference, at high load or WOT, air charge will hover around 600-720 MG depending on atmospheric conditions.

That said, intake air temperatures are usually higher. These pull timing dramatically once’s air intake temps go above about 80-90 degrees. There is a spark timing modifier within the tuning that pulls timing as intake air temps go up and it can pull as much as 10 degrees of timing. For reference, you gain or lose about 3-5 horsepower for every degree of timing.

Speculation, but I think part of the reason the Ram trucks with the v6 have a higher HP rating is because under hood temps are managed better and they heat soak less since the intake inlet is so much farther back from the radiator. Unlike these that basically rest on the radiator. There are no mechanical differences in the engine and very little differences in the tuning.

It really truly is about heat management, and a high flow filter in the factory air box is in my opinion the best option.

Awesome info, Brad! Sometimes the truth is not what we want to hear.... but datalogs do not lie.

FYI, I am ordering my MPVI4 and 4 x GSPEC5 credits from HPTuners today. Problem is, I don't own a PC; I exist in an Apple environment. I'll reply to you on the other thread so we don't hijack this one.

 

[azjl#3]

The only true CAI for a Jeep is a snorkel and not all of them are built equal. Ramming more air down the tube may help intake but if the computer is not programmed to compensate (as already mentioned) does it really make much difference. My experience with Jeeps with 3.8L, JK3.6 and JL 3.6 is they don’t make any difference in performance only noise.
Realistically the factory intake over the front fender does a pretty good job of pulling in cooler air rather than hot engine compartment air.

This, well said.

Snorkels are cool if you live in Africa or the Aussie outback. Otherwise, no real reason to raise an intake even if you think there is less dust up there, there is not.

Good discussion on dirt getting by the filter, but, that is resolved by reducing oil change intervals.

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