Blown Transmission/Glycol

[Maximus Gladious]

Hey all! I’m brand new over here. I don’t own a JL but do have a 21 Gladiator, 3.6 Auto with 32k kms, blown tranny. Has anyone done an oil analysis of their transmission oil and found glycol, high copper, iron and sodium in the oil?
Was hearing a whine at 20k kms. Dealership said it was normal, a custom jeep shop said it was normal too. I pulled an oil sample out at 24k and had it analyzed. GLYCOL, extremely high copper and iron, and sodium (glycol) found. ALERT to change the oil and filter. Went to my jeep dealer and showed the service manager the report and said I need to do a flush and I’m upgrading to full synthetic AMSOIL Fuel Efficient ATF -Chrysler MOPAR, ZF code compliant for the 850RE 8 speed transmission. Replacing the ZF 8/9 Speed Lifeguard ATF. Service Manager was very concerned looking at the analysis and said they don’t do flushes but if I was to do it, it’s better sooner than later but I would also risk voiding my warranty. He didn’t know anyone that’s ever done this with their jeep and was very impressed.
I got National Transmission in Calgary to do the flush and used 17L of AMSOIL ATF. Whine did not change but steadily got louder. At 32k kms (8k later) blew a tranny code P1B14-0 Park By Wire, Unintended Park Position and could not get it out of Park.

Pulled another sample from tranny and had it analyzed. No glycol this time but again high copper and iron.

Took it to dealership and once they saw I had AMSOIL they informed Tech Line who then kicked it upstairs to the District Service Manager who then voided my warranty and then extended that to my entire drivetrain.

I then showed the DSM the error of his ways which took three weeks and was given back my warranty and restrictions lifted. Tech Line and dealership was given the go ahead to investigate the code fault. (During this three week period I had it back home) Was able to drive it until tranny blew and coasted to the side of the road. Had it towed in. They dropped the pan and it was full of metal.

This is where she sits currently today. Waiting on Tech Line to make the next decision.

(Not selling and don’t care, but for anyone that is curious as to how the tranny responded after putting in AMSOIL, it was fantastic. Shifting was smoother, temps ran cooler and any gear down shifting shudders went away)
All my troubles started BEFORE the flush.

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/attachments/transmission-analysis-pdf.216146/

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[fat_head]

No.

Why wouldn't you just let your trans blow up and get replaced under warranty though? Why void your warranty like they said it would?

Help a guy understand.

 

[Maximus Gladious]

No.

Why wouldn't you just let your trans blow up and get replaced under warranty though? Why void your warranty like they said it would?

Help a guy understand.

Warranty was reinstated and AMSOIL legal was ready to sue Chrysler. I wanted a full synthetic in the transmission as a pose to the semi-synthetic MOPAR Lifeguard “good for life” oil. I wanted an upgrade oil in there and the lab result said to change the oil and filter but dealership service manager said “Chrysler won’t fix what isn’t broken” so the cost of the flush was on me. I’m 54 and was brought up to care for what you own. I was taking special measures to care for the transmission and hoped I could have fixed the whine with a flush. It didn’t work.

 

[Maximus Gladious]

Been busy dealing with dealership and DSM’s tantrums so haven’t had the time to add anything further anything till now.

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/forum/attachments/transmission-analysis-pdf.216146/
The analysis report here, is extremely disturbing to the lab, to me and to the shop that did the flush. It was also very troubling to the Service Manager I showed prior to taking it in for the flush. I went to great lengths discussing the report and even he stated he was afraid to know what his transmission oil may have in it. The glycol introduced at the factory assembly (09/20) as a wash for tooling would also be in other 850RE 8 speeds made during that time. Unless they’ve changed their ways from upper management, it’s still going on.

Ive driven mostly manual vehicles and doing oil changes was just part of my own maintenance practice. Was introduced to learning about oil analysis reports back in high school (1980’s), kids our age were involved in our vehicles. It was an investment, (though deprecating) then and always has been for me. I have great pride in what I own and part of that pride was to always upgrade in the oils I used and AMSOIL was were I went.

I had to get that oil out and all the talk about how impossible or the high level of knowledge needed to get at the oil was just garbage talk to me and quite frankly, I had no clue as to when the transmission would tank. For all I knew, it would make it over the 100k km mark and replacement costs would be on me anyway so I took a calculated gamble, enquired with AMSOIL as to whether or not their Signature Series ATF met or exceeded manufacturer specs and codes and they confirmed it met all Chrysler MOPAR and ZF codes for the transmission and I pulled the trigger.

Cost was on me at the dealership to do TWO oil changes with their “just drop pan only” system as they don’t do flushes at a cost of $1700 CAD EACH ($3400 TL)! As cost was on me, I didn’t want to use the semi-synthetic Mopar Lifeguard oil and chose the full synthetic AMSOIL Fuel Efficient SIGNATURE SERIES ATF. Transmission would be reflashed and I’d be back to driving.

Service Manager said during our extensive talk and also having used and grew up around performance vehicles, racing and AMSOIL, “expect the transmission to act differently. It will shift smoother and respond quicker” and that’s exactly what happened.

Little did I know that the transmission’s fate was already written. I’ve NEVER in all my years had to deal with the effects of glycol in my gears until now and no one looked at that report and said “I see you have glycol, YOUR TRANSMISSION IS DONE, leave it alone”. No one said it. This is a learning experience. If glycol is present in a transmission, a complete tear down and wash is necessary or even a rebuild is required or just leave it alone and let it come apart.

So, transmission failed at 32k kms. Diagnostic found “wrong oil” (ignorant comment) inside and DSM voided not only warranty to transmission but to all other components using AMSOIL and did so ignoring analysis report and without taking any investigative steps. Nobody called me nor to AMSOIL.

My complaint got filed with both service managers, DSM and FCA. I cited DSM’s swift action to void warranty was done in malice, slandered AMSOIL and was personal. To date, DSM, dealership and FCA has failed to write me a warranty restriction letter (Anyone want to read my complaint, just PM me).

I said glycol was introduced at the factory either by washing system or a disgruntled employee and DSM has continued to this day to punish me. Dealership has asked me to not sue them and service manager quit and as of yesterday, AMSOIL legal and senior managers are now involved and contacted dealership. FCA legal has now been contacted and I’m just getting started. The DSM has held my truck hostage for over a month now. If I have to legally turn his life upside down, I will.

Bottom line, we have THE RIGHT to choose what oils we want to use as long as it meets or exceeds manufacture specs and codes, free from warranty restrictions and unlawful, personal tantrums.

 

[Maximus Gladious]

Here’s my many oil analysis’s of my engine. (First one you don’t see, but is the same as the others here is my first oil change done at 1000kms. It is my first indication of glycol consumption in the engine.)

At 30k kms, my glycol consumption is measured at 10 ounces per 10k km oil change. 2 dealerships don’t want to address it and was told “if it ain’t broke, Chrysler won’t fix it”.

My burning question is if Chrysler won’t fix it or diagnosis fees are on me to pay (if they go hunting and can’t find the leak), how much coolant consumption is allowable in the engine?

 

[word302]

Here’s my many oil analysis’s of my engine. (First one you don’t see, but is the same as the others here is my first oil change done at 1000kms. It is my first indication of glycol consumption in the engine.)

At 30k kms, my glycol consumption is measured at 10 ounces per 10k km oil change. 2 dealerships don’t want to address it and was told “if it ain’t broke, Chrysler won’t fix it”.

My burning question is if Chrysler won’t fix it or diagnosis fees are on me to pay (if they go hunting and can’t find the leak), how much coolant consumption is allowable in the engine?

Unfortunately that is the case across the board. There is not a single manufacturer that will warranty an “impending failure”. They will wait until catastrophic failure, even though that failure will likely take out other parts and cost more to fix. I don’t understand the backwards mentality but this is not just a Jeep issue.

 

[Maximus Gladious]

Unfortunately that is the case across the board. There is not a single manufacturer that will warranty an “impending failure”. They will wait until catastrophic failure, even though that failure will likely take out other parts and cost more to fix. I don’t understand the backwards mentality but this is not just a Jeep issue.

Sad and extremely frustrating to experience a “don’t care” attitude at service when there certainly is a “care” attitude during sales.

In my case, I can only expect the glycol to just do what it does for the duration of the warranty period, hope something catastrophic happens but if it doesn’t show issues till after the 100k, then my option would be(if I’m still keeping it) to do a rebuild - bore cylinders, upgrade rings and pistons and other components and have a better, remade by hand engine.

 

[four low]

How did the glycol get into the transmission fluid ? You mentioned a "wash" procedure, and possible disgruntled employee ( sabotage)
Coolant interfaces, porous castings, that transmission should be disassembled and looked at with intense scrutiny. Failures like this are seldom one - offs ; they are the first warnings of a systemic failure.

 

[Maximus Gladious]

How did the glycol get into the transmission fluid ? You mentioned a "wash" procedure, and possible disgruntled employee ( sabotage)
Coolant interfaces, porous castings, that transmission should be disassembled and looked at with intense scrutiny. Failures like this are seldom one - offs ; they are the first warnings of a systemic failure.

https://www.jeepgladiatorforum.com/...emi-synthetic-oil-good-forever-24k-kms.49827/

This is my thread over on the gladiator site. Jump to the bottom of page 1 and read Kevman65 post and pick it back up on top of page two.

 

[Maximus Gladious]

No.

Why wouldn't you just let your trans blow up and get replaced under warranty though? Why void your warranty like they said it would?

Help a guy understand.

Looks like they didn’t read the owner’s manual. Read the first line for the transmission slowly and carefully, especially the last two words.

 

[four low]

I see your point, BUT,Corporate holds all the cards here. HindSight is always 20/20, but letting it fail, without touching it, would have met the warranty replacement criteria. You may be correct in your reasoning all down the line, but the FACT remains you are Shoveling Sand Against the Tide, and will spend thousands on legal fees, and more importantly, TIME without a vehicle while you argue with Corporate on this.
There is an old saying that kind of applies, from Maritime Experience " Captain O'Day had the Right Of Way, But is just as Dead as if He Didn't"

 

[Maximus Gladious]

Appreciate the words.

 

[four low]

Did I "misremember" that Amsoil and the OEM trans fluids are not compatible ? An issue in flushing transmissions is the torque converter, it retains fluid ? So could the 2 react and look like that viscous fluid in your pix ? Maybe our 8 spd doesn't even have an old style torque converter, but a little contamination can go a long way..
Just trying to understand the wholesale rejection of your warranty

 

[Maximus Gladious]

Did I "misremember" that Amsoil and the OEM trans fluids are not compatible ? An issue in flushing transmissions is the torque converter, it retains fluid ? So could the 2 react and look like that viscous fluid in your pix ? Maybe our 8 spd doesn't even have an old style torque converter, but a little contamination can go a long way..
Just trying to understand the wholesale rejection of your warranty

Yes, that’s right, AMSOIL does not mix with the MOPAR ZF 8/9 Speed ATF so a couple or 3 simple pan drops was not recommended from AMSOIL. One flush was necessary, to me and in my mind to prevent failure. But all I can say is I tried. The book said I could….at anytime.

The wholesale rejection of warranty has a couple different angles. Let’s remember what Chrysler’s book says, well, mine does anyway at pg 462, (tech specs) auto transmission fluid - Use ONLY Mopar ZF 8/9 Speed ATF or equivalent. (I didn’t write it, they did) So the DSM’s swift assault on me and ignore his bible and toss my warranty without any investigation, intelligent judgement, critical thought or inquiries and then to extend the assault restriction to my entire drivetrain using AMSOIL only displays one thing. He stands to gain personally in some form or fashion. His child like bully tirade was personal and slanderous and yes, there’s a form of criminal behaviour in there not too far under the surface. There’s nothing about what he did was professional.

Second angle that NO ONE DARE put on paper but was stated by one email from service manager, one phone call from assistant service manager and one statement from the young lady at FCA Customer Care is …”the wrong oil was used, AMSOIL damaged the transmission, cooler and hoses and during the 8k kms from flush to complete malfunction, AMSOIL destroyed it all. I’d say what they were all saying is repeating what the DSM had said. (Keep in mind, there’s only been a drop of the pan and scanner hookup is all) The cause of failure now noted on the service invoice “undetermined”, so now I have to get a court order to see the conversation the tech had with Techline and Techline to DSM. This is insanity at its best. But I’m going to get to the bottom of it and glycol science in transmissions is high on my list.

 

[four low]

I do think the incompatibility is going to be the issue, that lingering OEM fluid and Amsoil incompatibility will be the killer to warranty ; the fact that they are incompatible, known prior to the change, and done anyway, will limit your success on this.. Short of totally dismantling trans, lines, every recess cleaned, the KNOWN incompatibility won't let you out of the gate.
The Glycol would have been a convenient "cause", but once an Escape Route was introduced, Warranty Denied.
Even Amsoil will bow out on this ; their fluid may be better, but they can't / won't argue for you if any chance of contamination with OEM.
A Lab Test to show Amsoil is " pure ", no OEM, would bolster your case ( or prove it fruitless if OEM is prevent)

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