Blackstone versus oil analyzers

[Jeep Junkie]

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[Wabujitsu]

?

 

[Jeep Junkie]

?

Blackstone oil analysis is not accurate

 

[NWJeepr]

Nobody cares

 

[BDinTX]

I’m going to guess neither company have 100% accurate numbers and there will be some deviation that they consider “within the margin of error”.

If they are testing differently, hopefully the numbers will be skewed one way or another in the same direction consistently. I suspect the real value comes from long term trends and dramatic changes that are obvious outliers.

I just got a report back (from Blackstone) where they said the aluminum was too high (11 ppm). Oil had spilled on the form and they mistakenly guessed it was for our 2.0T. It had only 1 previous analysis done and that showed only 2 ppm which was inline with averages for all 2.0T engines. It does indeed look like an outlier.

Comparing it to the analysis for the correct vehicle though is different. My EcoDiesel has been getting 11-12ppm consistently over more samples andthat is also inline with unit averages for that engine type.

So I’m less worried about it but also left wondering why an EcoDiesel sheds so much more aluminum than the 2.0T. Personally, I find oil science and analysis interesting and want to learn more.

 

[TheNewGuy]

I've owned over 30 vehicles. Driven several to over 100k miles. Two over 250k. Haven't changed my own oil in 30 years and never asked what brand oil was being used when I took them in for oil changes. I've never had a single engine with internal issues.
You are wayyyyyy overthinking this.

 

[BDinTX]

Why do people who don't care insist on sharing with the world that they don't care? The easiest option, by far, is to not reply at all.

 

[Wabujitsu]

Why do people who don't care insist on sharing with the world that they don't care? The easiest option, by far, is to not reply at all.

Brad, I get your point. Having never done an OA, I’m curious as to why folks do. Like the person you responded to, I’ve owned a lot of vehicles and have never done this. While in the Army OA was done all of the time, and the mechanics throughout my 30 years in the Army always wondered why they were doing it, too. It never changed the maintenance schedules, and there were never any catastrophic engine failures.

 

[WI_Sarge]

My engine coolant level seems to get low overtime with no apparent leaks. So i did a couple blackstone analysis to keep an eye out for that. When you see
The variation like this though, gotta wonder just how accurate it is.

 

[TheNewGuy]

Brad, I get your point. Having never done an OA, I’m curious as to why folks do. Like the person you responded to, I’ve owned a lot of vehicles and have never done this. While in the Army OA was done all of the time, and the mechanics throughout my 30 years in the Army always wondered why they were doing it, too. It never changed the maintenance schedules, and there were never any catastrophic engine failures.

I could be wrong but I think he was responding to the "nobody cares" comment

 

[Wabujitsu]

I could be wrong but I think he was responding to the "nobody cares" comment

Yes Wes, thus the second sentence in my post.

 

[BDinTX]

Brad, I get your point. Having never done an OA, I’m curious as to why folks do. Like the person you responded to, I’ve owned a lot of vehicles and have never done this. While in the Army OA was done all of the time, and the mechanics throughout my 30 years in the Army always wondered why they were doing it, too. It never changed the maintenance schedules, and there were never any catastrophic engine failures.

Haha interesting. I just really like this dang Jeep so I started having the oil analysis done in the hope I’d spot something going wrong before it became noticeable in more dramatic ways. Maybe I bought into the marketing… . I guess I also nerd out on the data a little bit.

Honestly I also question the value of them since I doubt if a dealership would, or would be allowed, to do warranty work based on a UOA. For sure I have concluded the more I know about what’s going on, the more I worry.

Regarding my “high” aluminum finding, I was scouring the internet and I rarely found a report with anything below mine. Only a few with 5 or 6. Most were in the 30-40ppm range. My 4 samples so far show 12, 12, 7, and now 11. The low one (7) was oil from a road trip where I was doing a LOT of manual shifting to keep the RPMs high.

There is a theory out there that these motors produce a lot of aluminum from the factory TCM tune lugging the engine. There may be some truth to that.

 

[WannFly]

OP, I have never done oil analysis for cars, however, I did use Blackstone exclusively for my O-360 engine in the plane (PA-28) for about 6 years. Blackstone is very highly regarded in the aviation community. The reason of my reply to this post is - pick a vendor and stick to it. Blackstone vs X, Y or Z won't matter. They all do their analysis differently and there will be some numbers that won't match. It will also depend on how long the oil was sitting on their desk before doing the test, if the tech dropped the oil on the floor and scrapped it up bla bla bla. there is no end to it.

I also had discussions with other members in the community that used different vendor for analysis, their thoughts are the same.

The most important part in the oil analysis is the trend for YOUR engine and how the wear and tear is happening over time.

In a O-360 I used to do analysis at every oil change (25 hours of operation or 3 months whichever is earlier, sometimes way more than 25 hours in 3 months since the plane was flying 2-3 times a week or more), I got a nice trend line to detect any abnormalities over time.

One or 2 analyses won't cut it, that established trendline is far more important than any ad-hoc report.

I am no expert in oil.

 

[Pape]

The error margin look to be in the acceptable range IMO.
As for doing oil analysis the answer is super simple because we can.
As per Jeep junky over thinking this this is also true IMO, but two thing comme in mind:

1. This is a discussion forum therfore discussing jeep oil is right in this forum alley
2. He is sharing with us is mind in is own particular way, ya see #1

 

[CarbonSteel]

A few thoughts:

Used Oil Analysis tests are used to confirm the health of the oil and to a much lesser extent the health of the engine. This is because above or below a certain particle size, UOAs are “blind” and cannot detect those particles. Ergo, you could have something happening in the engine that is a prelude to a failure that a UOA may or may not detect. The one notable exception is the presence of sodium or potassium in the oil sample which indicates a coolant leak that left unchecked can and will ruin the engine. A UOA will detect an internal coolant leak long before any conventional method will.

There are ISO standards for testing labs, such as ISO17025, which sets the controls standards a lab should follow to obtain reliable, consistent, and repeatable results. Not all oil analysis labs are certified to this standard and thus the consumer is left to decide if said lab is able to provide consistent and repeatable results in lieu of the certification.

There are different ASTM testing methodologies, and some are better than others. For example, unless something has changed, Blackstone uses ASTM D92 which is a highly subjective and visual flame (flashpoint) test to determine fuel concentrations in the oil sample versus ASTM D7593 used by Polaris which uses gas chromatography and is objective and highly accurate.

Cost for the service is another consideration. For example, to determine the ability for engine oil to continue to neutralize acids which are a by-product of combustion, thereby indicating the oil is still suitable for continued use, you need to know the Total Base Number (TBN) level that remains. Blackstone charges an additional fee for TBN tests versus it being included in Polaris’ tests.

Lastly, attempting to compare the results between labs is not a straightforward process and will likely have skewed results that are untrustworthy. For myself, I want the best lab for the money (within reason) that produces consistent results. I have used 3 labs in my driving career: Blackstone, Horizon/Polaris, and Wear Check. I only use Horizon/Polaris at this point due to consistency and value. Others may use different labs as suited to their needs.

With all of that said, why would anyone consistently run a UOA on their oil? Countless people never run them and manage hundreds of thousands of miles with no issue. The biggest benefit for “Joe Car Owner” is trending whereas, one can detect an issue with the engine and take proactive steps to remediate that issue before it becomes catastrophic or cost prohibitive—despite that, it is typically overkill. Though a UOA told me that I had a cracked head or block in the Grinch allowing me to take action so I see that as a "win" that I would not have seen otherwise. It must also be noted that attempting to use a UOA to determine which oil produces the least wear is an exercise in complete futility. It is not possible to use an UOA to do that as there are countless variables that influence wear rates.

For “Joe Fleet Owner”, it is all about the bottom line and stretching your oil mileage, depending on fleet size, can equate to tens of thousands in annual savings despite the UOA costs. If within the fleet a UOA shows that you can safely increase your oil change interval (OCI) from 10,000 miles to 15,000 miles, then you have cut your oil maintenance costs by one-third which adds up to solid savings in short order.

Hope this helps!

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