Be Cautious with ESS

[JL4ROKS]

Did yours not come with a button on the dash to turn ESS off?

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[CharlieS3]

Well, frankly I disagree with much of what is said here. I've got 2000 miles with my ESS system and its never been an issue. The key is to understand its function, how it functions, and fully incorporate awareness of it into your driving. This is a fundamental aspect of professional driving, Know your vehicle. Operate it fully understanding and incorporating its functionalities, limitations, and capabilities.

The first thing is to understand that if it shuts off the engine, and you want the engine on, simply lift your foot off the brake. It instantly starts and will not reengage the system until you have gone over 10MPH. At stoplights, I just lift my foot for a moment as the light is changing and I'm already running by the time I'm ready to move. I've never had it stop, or at least never noticed it stop, when I was turning left. But again, my driving technique has always been to come off the brake a second or two before I plan to move and let the vehicle start to drift a foot or two, timing my opening.

I'm also a professional pilot. Every aircraft has its own systems and you have to learn to fly the systems, or you aren't fully prepared to fly the aircraft. I have an RV. People complain about how exhaust brake systems operate in large RVs,, again because they don't fully understand how to operate it appropriately.

On similar lines, when flying, we always anticipate the problems. We try to avoid scenarios that can be deadly if things go wrong, to always have appropriate options. For instance, flying single engine over water is a recipe for disaster, if you don't have proper flotation equipment available. By the same token, driving in a manner that will result in major injury or death, such as shooting across a tiny opening in traffic that requires instantaneous engine response and the engine stalls, is an example of poor decision making as a driver. Wait for adequate space and leave yourself time to deal with any issues.

Do don't disable a system, or denigrate it, simply because it doesn't allow you to drive the way you always drive. Learn to drive the vehicle you are in, or don't drive it.

As for the wear and tear argument, it is specious at best. I don't know of any study or evidence that indicates that an ESS system will wear out your vehicle parts in any significant manner.

Charlie

 

[to fast to bumpy]

I've found that if you just simply apply a light amount of brake pressure at a stop the ESS doesn't engage.

 

[chadly25]

Well, frankly I disagree with much of what is said here. I've got 2000 miles with my ESS system and its never been an issue. The key is to understand its function, how it functions, and fully incorporate awareness of it into your driving. This is a fundamental aspect of professional driving, Know your vehicle. Operate it fully understanding and incorporating its functionalities, limitations, and capabilities.

The first thing is to understand that if it shuts off the engine, and you want the engine on, simply lift your foot off the brake. It instantly starts and will not reengage the system until you have gone over 10MPH. At stoplights, I just lift my foot for a moment as the light is changing and I'm already running by the time I'm ready to move. I've never had it stop, or at least never noticed it stop, when I was turning left. But again, my driving technique has always been to come off the brake a second or two before I plan to move and let the vehicle start to drift a foot or two, timing my opening.

I'm also a professional pilot. Every aircraft has its own systems and you have to learn to fly the systems, or you aren't fully prepared to fly the aircraft. I have an RV. People complain about how exhaust brake systems operate in large RVs,, again because they don't fully understand how to operate it appropriately.

On similar lines, when flying, we always anticipate the problems. We try to avoid scenarios that can be deadly if things go wrong, to always have appropriate options. For instance, flying single engine over water is a recipe for disaster, if you don't have proper flotation equipment available. By the same token, driving in a manner that will result in major injury or death, such as shooting across a tiny opening in traffic that requires instantaneous engine response and the engine stalls, is an example of poor decision making as a driver. Wait for adequate space and leave yourself time to deal with any issues.

Do don't disable a system, or denigrate it, simply because it doesn't allow you to drive the way you always drive. Learn to drive the vehicle you are in, or don't drive it.

As for the wear and tear argument, it is specious at best. I don't know of any study or evidence that indicates that an ESS system will wear out your vehicle parts in any significant manner.

Charlie

You missed the point of the thread, too. That's okay. It's 7 pages long now so I'm guessing you didn't read everything.

The main point of the story is I was waiting to turn left. The engine was running for about 10 seconds as I was stopped waiting for traffic to pass. I had an opening and took my foot off the brake while the engine was still running. Once I shifted my foot over to the gas the engine stopped. Having my foot on the accelerator did not turn the engine back on as it should have. I had to press the brake again and release it for the engine to turn back on. There is no way anyone can explain this to be a "normal" function of the system.

Why everyone thinks they need to teach others how to use this or be aware of it is a joke. "well when you start to drive you should expect your car to randomly die and not start back up, get used to it...." I know how the system works. I've driven with it for over 8k miles in my can and over 4k miles in my wife's Honda. We don't need a lesson, we need error free operation in potentially dangerous situations.

Anyways, I just got a call from my Jeep dealer. They ran through the entire system and said there were no codes in the system. They said they have heard of it doing this one other time and they think it's a fluke. By fluke I think they mean a programming error when certain conditions happen. The good news is that it is hard to reproduce so hopefully nobody ever experiences it because it wasn't enjoyable.

 

[StrikeZ]

Hate starting yet another ESS thread but I can only find threads talking about bypass or battery issues.

First let me state that I hated the idea of ESS. The first test drive I took about a year ago had the ESS stop the engine when I was at my first stop sign. I didn't know about it then and it gave me that sick feeling of being stranded. I didn't get my Jeep delivered for 4 months but during that time I was reading all of the threads to see how to bypass this. I was prepared to spend hundreds of dollars to make this go away.

When my Jeep finally arrived I figured I would try the ESS for a week and see how it went. To my surprise it didn't bother me that much once I knew it would happen. In fact, I actually began to enjoy the feature. It was easy to just gently pump the brake a few seconds before I was going to accelerate.

Yesterday was the first time I was driving and it caused me to feel stranded and vulnerable again. I was in the left lane preparing to pull into a restaurant. I was letting the traffic pass and had a window to go. At the very moment I tried to accelerate the Jeep died. Luckily I had only went a few inches and didn't cross the median. The Jeep remained dead even as my foot was on the gas pedal. The Jeep didn't start back up again until I pressed on the brake and released it again. Luckily this wasn't a situation where I caused an accident that could have potentially hurt someone or myself but it does make me pause and reconsider if I should be driving with this feature turned on.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/bFgESnz4Wl0

If only they supplied a button to bypass the ESS? SMH

 

[chadly25]

If only they supplied a button to bypass the ESS? SMH

If only someone would read a post before they make a comment that doesn’t apply.....

 

[JMyatt]

Not sure what you mean by “get it perfected soon”. This has been on cars for years now and pretty much the range of reactions by consumers is the same regarding love it, hate it or don’t care.

Interesting article here. Wonder if the wrangler system can be defeated the same as this F150 by fooling it into thinkng there is a trailer attached?

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a...-to-deactivate-stopstart-systems-temporarily/

Interesting. Easy to try if you have one of those testers that have resistive loads to check the pin out. I will try it and let you know.

 

[TXPearl]

OP, if you were stopped and the engine was still running (perhaps intentionally?), then you did not have the brake pedal engaged far enough to activate ESS. My guess is that an instant before you began to start your turn, your foot pushed the brake pedal down just past the ESS activation point (probably a tiny, impercepible amount of brake travel). So as, in your mind, you're starting a turn and moving your foot over to the gas pedal, the engine is performing the shutdown sequence it started a split second before. I suppose there's some minmum time interval from when it shuts down to when it can restart again (maybe 1-2 seconds?), which would seem like an eternity when you're in the middle of a left turn across traffic. By the time it would've restarted the engine, you'd already moved your foot back to the brake pedal, probably harder this time to stop the turn. So then the engine stays off until you let off the brake again.

I'm not saying it's your fault and the ESS programming shouldn't be updated/improved, but I think this is the most plausible scenario as to why it behaved like it did and why the dealer is seeing no fault codes.

 

[Aaron]

I've had my JLUR for nearly a year, and my ESS has engaged less and less frequently over time, stopping entirely months ago. Anyone else have this experience? I actually didn't mind the feature.

 

[shacdaddy]

OH sweet jesus everyone, just turn it off when you start up. It's not brain surgery, and will eventually become second-nature.

 

[chadly25]

Many people like ESS and use it daily. For those that do, it’s just a heads up. For you, push your button and move on.

 

[chadly25]

OP, if you were stopped and the engine was still running (perhaps intentionally?), then you did not have the brake pedal engaged far enough to activate ESS. My guess is that an instant before you began to start your turn, your foot pushed the brake pedal down just past the ESS activation point (probably a tiny, impercepible amount of brake travel). So as, in your mind, you're starting a turn and moving your foot over to the gas pedal, the engine is performing the shutdown sequence it started a split second before. I suppose there's some minmum time interval from when it shuts down to when it can restart again (maybe 1-2 seconds?), which would seem like an eternity when you're in the middle of a left turn across traffic. By the time it would've restarted the engine, you'd already moved your foot back to the brake pedal, probably harder this time to stop the turn. So then the engine stays off until you let off the brake again.

I'm not saying it's your fault and the ESS programming shouldn't be updated/improved, but I think this is the most plausible scenario as to why it behaved like it did and why the dealer is seeing no fault codes.

Perhaps, not sure of the “off” timer. I have had it kick on immediately before in stop and go traffic but not sure on specifics. If I had the luxury of time and awareness I would have tested it. I kept my foot on the gas for at least a second thinking it would kick on and I would still go. Can’t really give any exact reasons only speculation.

 

[NCIC105]

Well, frankly I disagree with much of what is said here. I've got 2000 miles with my ESS system and its never been an issue. The key is to understand its function, how it functions, and fully incorporate awareness of it into your driving. This is a fundamental aspect of professional driving, Know your vehicle. Operate it fully understanding and incorporating its functionalities, limitations, and capabilities.

The first thing is to understand that if it shuts off the engine, and you want the engine on, simply lift your foot off the brake. It instantly starts and will not reengage the system until you have gone over 10MPH. At stoplights, I just lift my foot for a moment as the light is changing and I'm already running by the time I'm ready to move. I've never had it stop, or at least never noticed it stop, when I was turning left. But again, my driving technique has always been to come off the brake a second or two before I plan to move and let the vehicle start to drift a foot or two, timing my opening.

I'm also a professional pilot. Every aircraft has its own systems and you have to learn to fly the systems, or you aren't fully prepared to fly the aircraft. I have an RV. People complain about how exhaust brake systems operate in large RVs,, again because they don't fully understand how to operate it appropriately.

On similar lines, when flying, we always anticipate the problems. We try to avoid scenarios that can be deadly if things go wrong, to always have appropriate options. For instance, flying single engine over water is a recipe for disaster, if you don't have proper flotation equipment available. By the same token, driving in a manner that will result in major injury or death, such as shooting across a tiny opening in traffic that requires instantaneous engine response and the engine stalls, is an example of poor decision making as a driver. Wait for adequate space and leave yourself time to deal with any issues.

Do don't disable a system, or denigrate it, simply because it doesn't allow you to drive the way you always drive. Learn to drive the vehicle you are in, or don't drive it.

As for the wear and tear argument, it is specious at best. I don't know of any study or evidence that indicates that an ESS system will wear out your vehicle parts in any significant manner.

Charlie

Thank you for letting me know what I need. I thought I had the knowledge to make this selection, but I was wrong. How foolish I feel for driving everything from a tractor trailer to a Corvette and them not having ESS. How dangerous I was to everyone. I’m glad I read your expert opinion on what I want. Again thank you for taking the time to tell me what I want in life. I’ll be sure to reach out to you soon with additional questions so you can plan the rest of my life. Dear God how the heck did I make it to 64 without your guidance.

 

[iznthesky]

There is a solution to all of your problems. It's called a 6-speed manual transmission. I am in complete control of ESS with my manual. Love it.

Ditto. With the manual transmission, the ESS works in perfect harmony. I can put it in neutral, let out the clutch and the ESS turns off the motor.....while I am coasting up to the light or the traffic stopped at the light. Any amount of pressure on the clutch will re start the engine quicker than you can place the transmission back into gear. It works great in a manual. I see how it can be dangerous in an automatic transmission.....but that scenario can not happen with the 6 speed Manual.
Chalk one up for 3 pedal drivers.

 

[smithrd65]

For the Tazer users call your dealer and ask do they keep a file on all known Tazer installs and if an issue happens they want honor the warranty and that part only.

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