Any engine with ESS

LawrenceR

Well-Known Member
First Name
Lawrence
Joined
Mar 3, 2020
Messages
105
Reaction score
35
Location
Auburn Ca.
Vehicle(s)
2020 Willys Sport
I have a question about the ESS system.

I want to start by saying, my father built engines for a living. He not only built them he blueprinted and balanced the motors. One thing he always preached was "...the most wear an engine gets is on start up, all of the oil is in the pan..." The next topic was, "...each time the engine is started, extra wear is put upon the starter motor, electrical systems, etc..."

The info supplied by Chrysler states "..The 3.6L Pentastar® V6 engine includes Engine Stop/Start (ESS) Technology. ESS automatically shuts the engine off at full stops, then re-engages for takeoff. The technology is engineered to help deliver efficient performance, and can be disabled with the push of a button. I can't see why the above would not also apply to the 4 cyl and the diesel.

Is this happening at every time the vehicle stops ? Like every time at a stop light or stop sign ? OR if we are sitting talking to a friend while on the trail or pause to pick up the mail ? Is there a pause delay, after so many seconds, is when the engine turns off ?

I am curious how many times during the course of a normal drive is the engine actually shutting off.

Additionally, the information supplied states the driver can disable this function. How is this working in the real world ?

To me, it seems that Chrysler spent a lot of time and money paying some engineer to come up with a way to "promote" a system most of us will never use - not to mention the extra wear our engines are getting.



Advertisement



 

Paluss

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2018
Messages
303
Reaction score
254
Location
maryland
Vehicle(s)
2018 Rubicon, 2013 Porsche 911, 2015 Harley CVO Streetglide
I have a question about the ESS system.

I want to start by saying, my father built engines for a living. He not only built them he blueprinted and balanced the motors. One thing he always preached was "...the most wear an engine gets is on start up, all of the oil is in the pan..." The next topic was, "...each time the engine is started, extra wear is put upon the starter motor, electrical systems, etc..."

The info supplied by Chrysler states "..The 3.6L Pentastar® V6 engine includes Engine Stop/Start (ESS) Technology. ESS automatically shuts the engine off at full stops, then re-engages for takeoff. The technology is engineered to help deliver efficient performance, and can be disabled with the push of a button. I can't see why the above would not also apply to the 4 cyl and the diesel.

Is this happening at every time the vehicle stops ? Like every time at a stop light or stop sign ? OR if we are sitting talking to a friend while on the trail or pause to pick up the mail ? Is there a pause delay, after so many seconds, is when the engine turns off ?

I am curious how many times during the course of a normal drive is the engine actually shutting off.

Additionally, the information supplied states the driver can disable this function. How is this working in the real world ?

To me, it seems that Chrysler spent a lot of time and money paying some engineer to come up with a way to "promote" a system most of us will never use - not to mention the extra wear our engines are getting.
Start stop technology is used by just about every car manufacturer and has proved to be a reliable system and does improve gas mileage. You dad was correct about engine wear, but I would add that it is the "cold" start that has the biggest impact. On the start stop the engine is still hot and the oil is still in the critical areas when the restart happens. Also the bearings inside the motor have been upgraded to handle one 300,000 starts and the started was designed to handle the wear and tear. For most ppl it takes time to get use to the start/stop and then its not an issue for others the press the button to disabled which have to do each time you start the engine, I believe it is automatically disabled when you are in 4wd lo etc when you are on the trail...
 

Jitzy

Well-Known Member
First Name
Joe
Joined
Apr 5, 2020
Messages
117
Reaction score
178
Location
Orlando, Florida
Vehicle(s)
2020 JLU Willys
Occupation
Retired Police, Now Certified Custom Club Fitter
Chrysler didn’t start this EVERY new car out for the last few years has this and yes it is the most annoying thing possible but turning it off is simple.
 

BikiniJLR

Well-Known Member
First Name
Steve
Joined
Sep 21, 2019
Messages
225
Reaction score
475
Location
Calgary
Vehicle(s)
2019 JL Rubicon 2 door
Build Thread
Link
Vehicle Showcase
1
I don’t love it but I don’t hate it either. It only kicks in when the engine is warmed up and only while the vehicle is in gear with the brake depressed and at a full stop.
The button to turn it off is easily accessible and simple to use plus I have the Tazer Mini which could disable it altogether. As my normal commute is mostly highway and a few stoplights it doesn’t play a big part in my day to day driving.
 

D60

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2019
Messages
1,313
Reaction score
1,300
Location
CO
Vehicle(s)
JL
I find it amusing the oil companies are now making oil badged as specifically being for start/stop applications.

Either it's all marketing or the vehicle manufacturers are lying when they say it doesn't contribute any wear to the engine. I think it's both personally.

But OP, this isn't a Chrysler thing, it's an every-manufacturer thing. Really it's a stop-gap bandaid until vehicles go all electric.

Use a battery powered weed eater or chain saw and you won't miss the idling in between cuts, or the "oh I forgot that ONE branch, gotta start it back up again."

I use my Tazer to disable my ESS. ESS has not been allowed to function for the 16k miles my JL has been driven thus far.
 

CaJLMetalHead

Well-Known Member
First Name
CAJLMetalHead
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
83
Reaction score
50
Location
96049
Vehicle(s)
Jeep Wrangler Sport Unlimited
ESS is very annoying... it is only good for making our rigs more expensive... more complex... with more components to fail and I imagine few of us benefit from it... or care about it... I mean... our rigs are not fuel-efficient to begin with ... why bother installing ESS on a Jeep Wrangler? lipstick on a pig... ... it has to be politics and government regulations.. because it really makes no sense, most of us lift and install big tires on our rigs which horribly kills MPG ...... I, like many others have installed Tazer just to get rid of ESS... the only good ESS is a DISABLED ESS...

That being said... I think the engineering that goes into ESS is quite genius... there are other companies that make smoother versions of ESS... installed on cars where it really makes sense.. I wonder what real-world ESS data looks like during testing of stock JLs..

again... the only good ESS is a DISABLED ESS...
 

sardog12

Well-Known Member
First Name
Drew
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
105
Reaction score
84
Location
Baton Rouge
Vehicle(s)
2004 Wrangler X-Gone, 2019 Wrangler Rubicon
Occupation
IT
Vehicle Showcase
1
To me, it seems that Chrysler spent a lot of time and money paying some engineer to come up with a way to "promote" a system most of us will never use - not to mention the extra wear our engines are getting.
You should understand that this is not some gimmicky system that Chrysler is using to try to compete with other manufacturers. This is a response to government regulations that were enacted when this model was being planned.
 

The Fixer

Well-Known Member
First Name
Steve
Joined
Aug 7, 2019
Messages
134
Reaction score
102
Location
North Jersey
Vehicle(s)
2018 Mojito! JLS, 2018 Firecracker JLUSS
Occupation
Teacher
@LawrenceR it's just a simple push of the ESS button to disable it. It's pretty much routine for me to push the "Start" button, then ESS off right after. They're practically right next to each other LOL. I never use it, and I've also wondered the same thing about wear/tear - mostly on the starter motor and electrical system. I have noticed no loss or gain in fuel economy to speak of either. Only certain powertrains have the ESS system available (it's not on the Hemi Charger, for example) it's just another way for the manufacturers to claim better fuel economy numbers for the EPA.
 

IdahoJOAT

Well-Known Member
First Name
Rodger
Joined
May 12, 2020
Messages
52
Reaction score
36
Location
Caldwell, ID
Vehicle(s)
Bikini Pearl '20 JLUR 2.0T A/T, Black '05 Silverado DRW Duramax Flatbed
Vehicle Showcase
1
I have a question about the ESS system.

~

To me, it seems that Chrysler spent a lot of time and money paying some engineer to come up with a way to "promote" a system most of us will never use - not to mention the extra wear our engines are getting.
I've never had a vehicle with it, so it's interesting.

I've noticed that when you begin to let off the brake (at a stop sign or light) the engine fires right up. There's virtually no delay versus leaving the engine on.

We personally don't plan to lift or put bigger rubber on the JLUR, and it gets about the same mileage as our '14 Fusion.
 

TEXGOAT

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2020
Messages
1,123
Reaction score
723
Location
Texas
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLU
ESS is near-useless at best and a prolific source of problems. Try selling it as an option!!!! Yes, I can turn it off, but I'm still carrying the heavy, nasty, lead-filled auxilliary battery and other useless stuff around and I'm still subject to having significant reliability problems with the damned thing that affect the entire vehicle, not just the ESS. I despise it and I despise the culture that mandated it. It WILL shorten engine life and it WILL give rise to starter/ring gear problems down the road. In most climates and operating situations, it WILL NOT save any significant amount of fuel or anything else. As for all-electric vehicles and hybrids, we've had them for 120 years. The problem with them has always been inadequate batteries, and it still is. Besides that, im most all cases, they use "FOSSIL FUEL" as a primary energy source, among other things. New technology? The electric motor is older technology than the internal combustion engine. As far as that goes, the electrochemical cell is also older tech than the internal combustion engine. (See: "Baghdad Battery") As for "saving the planet", I have produced about 25 KWH of wind power since last midnight. It's been a poor wind day, so far. My system is capable of delivering about 12,500 KWH (24 hrs) on a breezy day with winds from 18-25 MPH. Payout? About the 12th of Never!
 

jessedacri

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jesse
Joined
Aug 23, 2019
Messages
280
Reaction score
409
Location
Los Angeles, CA
Vehicle(s)
2019 Bright White 2dr JL Rubicon 3.6
I believe it currently is an emissions requirement (millions of cars with their engine stopped at red lights is a measurable benefit, for sure) and every manufacturer has this. It's less intrusive on the 2.0 where the motor itself was designed around this. It's basically a retrofit on the 3.6, where it fires a normal-sounding engine start sequence. The 2.0 comes back on smoothly like, well, a Prius. There are unfortunately millions of those on the road with ESS and hundreds of thousands of miles so there's definitely a way to do this out there without blowing up the motor long term.

You can disable it with some off the shelf products. It also will be automatically disabled if you're in any 4WD mode, or with the transmission shifter in manual gear selection in 2H, or if you have your seatbelt off. The ESS OFF button has to be pressed every time you power up the Jeep, otherwise.

I hate it, but I find it easily defeatable and it never, ever comes on out on the trail.
 

limeade

Well-Known Member
First Name
Guy
Joined
Oct 29, 2018
Messages
369
Reaction score
619
Location
Reno, NV
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLUR, 2019 JLUR
Build Thread
Link
Vehicle Showcase
1
Like @jessedacri stated, the 2.0 eTorque is very smooth and I leave mine on. The eTorque also has the Belt Start Generator (BSG) and a 48 volt battery pack and is not having the auxilliary battery problems like the 3.6's have. Beginning in 2020, the 2.0 eTorque is only available in the Recon models, all other models are available with the 2.0 with regular ESS.

I just did a test drive of a 2020 JLUR with the 2.0 ESS and didn't like it. The eTorque is much smoother and you hardly notice the start/stop function.
 

nerubi

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Nov 28, 2018
Messages
2,950
Reaction score
3,046
Location
Nebraska
Vehicle(s)
2019 JLR, 2020 VW Tiguan
Occupation
Retired
Vehicle Showcase
1
ESS is very annoying... it is only good for making our rigs more expensive... more complex... with more components to fail and I imagine few of us benefit from it... or care about it... I mean... our rigs are not fuel-efficient to begin with ... why bother installing ESS on a Jeep Wrangler? lipstick on a pig... ... it has to be politics and government regulations.. because it really makes no sense, most of us lift and install big tires on our rigs which horribly kills MPG ...... I, like many others have installed Tazer just to get rid of ESS... the only good ESS is a DISABLED ESS...

That being said... I think the engineering that goes into ESS is quite genius... there are other companies that make smoother versions of ESS... installed on cars where it really makes sense.. I wonder what real-world ESS data looks like during testing of stock JLs..

again... the only good ESS is a DISABLED ESS...
Without ESS, PHEV, full electric and other features you wouldn't be buying Wranglers much longer. Jeep has to meet MPG and emissions requirements and they don't have a lot if Corollas or Prius in their lineup to help.
FCA announced:

In its continuing efforts to monitor and reduce the environmental impact of its vehicles, FCA has completed its latest Global Warming Potential (GWP) analysis.

The redesigned-for-2018 Jeep® Wrangler Unlimited was compared with the previous-generation vehicle, its overall GWP is 15 percent lower than that of its predecessor.

So I know some of you, especially from Texas, love to bitch about technology but learn to live with it or go back to riding the ultimate 4 wheeler, a horse.
 

TEXGOAT

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2020
Messages
1,123
Reaction score
723
Location
Texas
Vehicle(s)
2018 JLU
Like @jessedacri stated, the 2.0 eTorque is very smooth and I leave mine on. The eTorque also has the Belt Start Generator (BSG) and a 48 volt battery pack and is not having the auxilliary battery problems like the 3.6's have. Beginning in 2020, the 2.0 eTorque is only available in the Recon models, all other models are available with the 2.0 with regular ESS.

I just did a test drive of a 2020 JLUR with the 2.0 ESS and didn't like it. The eTorque is much smoother and you hardly notice the start/stop function.
The -etorque is a different animal entirely. I'd still want a defeat feature due to A/C concerns in summer.
 



Top