Battery maintainer question

[OldGuyNewJeep]

I apologize BRuby, I didn’t mean to upset you. Quite the opposite, you intrigue me with your persistence and passion for your perspective.

In the face of so many real world things that dispel the myths, I was trying to see if you could give something more than, “Because they say so” as to why you believe what you believe.

Although not a perfect analogy, I’m gonna try again:

Imagine you have two balloons connected to a water hose
The hose is regulated to no greater than 10 cups per minute at 14.7 p.s.i.
One balloon can hold 2 quarts (main) and the other a pint (aux)

You turn on the water.….

The little balloon having less rubber to stretch has higher resistance while the larger balloon with more rubber that can expand has less resistance.

You smugly grin as you watch water predictably following the least resistance and the big balloon starts filling….

As the resistance to stretch the big balloon increases as it fills, flow to the little balloon starts. As the resistance equalizes, so does the flow under equal pressure.

Both balloons fill to the extent of the pressure in the hose. Your gauge says something like 12.6 p.s.i.

You can clearly see the big balloon accepted more water for the same pressure than the small balloon but you also see the pressure in both balloons is the exact same. Makes sense.

Eager to rush to the forum to call VK an idiot with your findings, you pause.

Why did VK suggest this example? Is that clueless moron setting me up? Did he get booted from the Bronco forum so he came here? Why?

You grab a pencil and quickly sketch out the analogical correlation:

Water Pressure = Supply Voltage: Regulated up to 14.7 volts
Water Flow = Supply Amperage: Regulated up to 10 amps
Big Balloon = Higher Capacity 12 VDC Main Battery
Little Balloon = Lower Capacity 12 VDC Aux Battery

Why would them fools at Stellantis allow the big balloon to fill first? Why not install a higher flow hose and two large balloons so I can shut VK up?

You call Carlos Tavares and he answers due to recognizing your number in Caller ID.

Predictably, his reply to your question is because he’s cheap. The higher the amperage of the alternator, the higher the cost. The higher the capacity of the second battery, the higher its cost. He adds, if they didn’t increase the alternator amperage potential, it would actually take longer to fill the batteries. Before you can slam him with a witty rebuttal, he says, “Plus, you don’t need all that capacity to keep the controllers energized when ESS is active. It just doesn’t take much amperage to power 5 volt controllers”.

Livid at his indifference, you tell him all about overcharging and undercharging. “My Gawd Carlos, you’re an engineer, not a Bronco owner!” you scream….

While continuing to eat his Fritos, he nonchalantly tells you an overcharge is when voltage exceeds rating and undercharge occurs when resistance exceeds voltage. He asks if the alternator is dumping more than its rated voltage or is the lil battery resistance so high the alternator can’t charge it?

You say, “no, not yet”…..

It’s almost time to watch M.A.S.H. so thinking it will end the conversation quickly, he says he wants the main battery to get the most flow first. It’s needs more capacity to crank and if it ain’t got enough stored to do that, there’s no need for a full little battery.

In the background, you hear his wife yell, “If Carlos installed an isolator to ensure individual charging, that would gain nothing. If the lil’ battery gets flow thirsty, the main would never get replenished as the isolator will keep flow going into the aux hoping the voltage comes up. Vice versa, if the main gets weak, the isolator will have the flow going to it, leaving you stranded at a light if the IBS ignores your discharged aux.”

As you launch into a tirade on cross-discharge, his butler holding an embroidered dishrag interrupts and says, “Who cares? So the little battery wants some juice from the big battery. It has plenty to spare. If the big battery wants sauce, yeah, it can drain the little battery but again, so what? In either case you have a failed battery. If you read on the web you should change them both, at least the total cost is less than buying two main batteries.”

Before you can cuss at the concept, your iPhone goes dead. You plug it in and watch its even littler dissimilar battery suck flow from your Jeeps parallel circuit of two dissimilar batteries.

You wonder aloud why VK took the time to write this story. Is he right? No, idiots can’t be right.

Does he like to mess with my mind? Clearly, he is kind of a punk troll.

But what’s his angle? Maybe, just maybe he’s trying to help a fellow Jeepster out of a ditch hoping they’ll take their foot off the brake with this story…..

Nah, he’s got to be an idiot.

VK, I quite enjoyed that… and learned something.

I’m still leaving my AUX disconnected and ESS disabled, though. ;-)

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[Wolfy]

Okay, scanned the thread, Not in depth. Interested because... I own a 2 battery Jeep, I just had to buy a LiPo charger for my GSX-S1000F, and I'm curious about battery stuff (I'm an engineer). So, it seems like as long as the batteries are the same chemistry (same output voltage), charging in parallel is not a problem (In theory). But, if one battery goes dead, and can't hold a charge (whichever one hits EOL earlier), the other one is going to pathetically try to equalize the voltage until it's dead. So... seems to me that the problem is that the risk of a dead battery is basically doubled, or even less, because we have two, and the weakest link (first to die) will drain the second. Is that whats happenning? I don't know the answer, just proposing a theory. My batteries are still good (as of today). Except in my MC, but I have that covered.

 

[BRuby]

VK, I quite enjoyed that… and learned something.

I’m still leaving my AUX disconnected and ESS disabled, though. ;-)

Haha!

You never cease to amaze VK. Amazing write-up. Bravo.

 

[InjectedCJ7]

I actually started this thread, for better or worse (LOL), a while ago. I’ve learned quite a bit, with all the replies. I’m getting a Tazer, and plan to disconnect the AUX, and keep it in place as a reserve battery. Not a big fan of ESS…

I have a semi-related question, if I may. I’m currently away from home for a couple of months, and my JL is in the garage, with the batteries draining, as we speak. My daughter is staying at my house and offered to drive the Jeep once in a while to keep it charged. If she just started it and let it idle for 20 minutes a week, would that be enough to keep the batteries up? Your thoughts?

John

 

[OldGuyNewJeep]

If she just started it and let it idle for 20 minutes a week, would that be enough to keep the batteries up? Your thoughts?

No. That does more harm than good.

Go on Amazon and have a Noco-10 delivered, then have her plug it in. (It’s as easy as clamp red to red, black to black, then plug in Noco and hit mode until AGM lights up. You can walk her through on FaceTime.)

 

[VKSheridan]

No. That does more harm than good.

Go on Amazon and have a Noco-10 delivered, then have her plug it in. (It’s as easy as clamp red to red, black to black, then plug in Noco and hit mode until AGM lights up. You can walk her through on FaceTime.)

Great question and a spot on answer from OldGuyNewJeep.

 

[InjectedCJ7]

No. That does more harm than good.

Go on Amazon and have a Noco-10 delivered, then have her plug it in. (It’s as easy as clamp red to red, black to black, then plug in Noco and hit mode until AGM lights up. You can walk her through on FaceTime.)

@OldGuyNewJeep,
I ordered a NOCO-10, and it will be at my house Sunday. Hopefully, when I return home in April, the Jeep will start… Thanks for your advice.

John

 

[NewJLU2019]

@OldGuyNewJeep,
I ordered a NOCO-10, and it will be at my house Sunday. Hopefully, when I return home in April, the Jeep will start… Thanks for your advice.

John

FYI, I have the NOCO-10 She can read instructions but make sure you put clamps on battery posts and then plug power on. When battery is fully charged, the green light will stop pulsing and stays green. You can still leave on and it will trickle charge as needed. Make sure she puts on AGM. It's the 2nd white light, first light is regular Lead acid battery (12V)
You cannot change setting to AGM until you have it set up and power on. Needs to be on battery.

 

[NewJLU2019]

@OldGuyNewJeep,
I ordered a NOCO-10, and it will be at my house Sunday. Hopefully, when I return home in April, the Jeep will start… Thanks for your advice.

John

If you need any more info you can ask @WranglerMan too. He gave me all my info about the NOCO-10 Others on forum can help too.

 

[TheNewGuy]

@TheNewGuy

You could just buy a new extension cable and use that one you have without a cap for another thing.

Here is the exact 18" cable I bought / same vendor. Not expensive. Seller is aok ... quick to ship.
I have bought a couple from him over the last 2 yrs.. Has the 2 Pin SAE to SAE you need.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/112595846383?hash=item1a373c44ef:g:IRkAAOSwhQhY3lvr

For the plastic shielding buy at Harbor Freight... a couple of bucks for a few feet of it.

Do you know the diameter of the shielding you used? Figuring 3/8 or 1/2

 

[Rhinebeck01]

Do you know the diameter of the shielding you used? Figuring 3/8 or 1/2

I think it was 3/8.

 

[WranglerMan]

The NOCO 10 is the best charger for a stock setup, forget about those lawn mower/motorcycle tenders unless you plan on using one after the batteries have been properly charged.

I use a NOCO 10 if my JL is parked more than a few days, one trick with the NOCO and I would not do this on a stock setup with the batteries connected is to use repair mode but it has to be a monitored process, it kicks out a full 10 amps and 16+ volts and can knock the plates clean on a battery but as I said it has to be monitored and the batteries have to be separated as it will cook the little ESS battery.

I used to do the above monthly until I compared the end result to using my odyssey 20 6-stg and now I just use the odyssey but I’m running two full size full River 650’s and I have my IBS disabled so nothing near stock for charging.

For the $$ the NOCO 10 is the best bang for the buck and it has a host of features, also remember when hooking any smart charger up to hook it up correctly or you can confuse the charging program that’s built into them.

 

[20-Willys]

Previous post here mentions using the larger lug and not just the battery post but recent post mentions what sounds like just the battery posts. Just wondering which is best?

 

[Rhinebeck01]

Previous post here mentions using the larger lug and not just the battery post but recent post mentions what sounds like just the battery posts. Just wondering which is best?

@20-Willys

Read back carefully through this whole thread.. The info you seek is there.

You will read ......When hooking up, in regard to the Neg side.... you want to hook up, so the IBS Sensor is in the mix.

With that said, in the pic below...... you would use either #5 or #6 point to attach your Neg cable to and with doing so, the IBS Sensor is in the mix..

I prefer/use #6 as the threaded lug is a bigger diameter.

 

[Gorpf]

Quick follow up question, as someone who has never used a tender before. Are you able to hook it up with the battery still seated in the Jeep, or do you need to remove the battery from the vehicle and then place it on the tender?

I have same question for the C-tek charger/maintainer. Instructions state to put negative clip away from battery onto engine block or chassis, not sheet metal. I‘m not seeing a spot that will work with the battery seated in the vehicle for the 392 engine. ?‍

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