Any engine with ESS

[Paluss]

I drove my previous E-class Mercedes to 150k miles with ESS engaged everyday on a 20 mile commute to downtown DC, my only compliant was in the summer sometimes the interior started to get warm before the ESS kicked in. I also did 15K mile mobil 1 oil changes on the vehicle with no issues. its your choice, but learn to embrace the technology things are changing, this is coming from a guy that use to use a feeler gauge to adjust valves on 80s BMWs and replaced points and distributor caps on early 70s muscle cars (I remember driving through puddles and the distributor and spark plug wires would get wet and the car would die) and rebuilt a few carburetors too. Technology makes things so much easier if you experienced the good/bad ole days of car reliability don't get me started about my MGBs and TR6s you would truely smile at todays technology....

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[Paluss]

Tru Dat, I learned to park my car on a hill always cuz I never knew when it was not going to start, LOL! my first date at a move ended up with me pushing the the car and yelling to my date let the clutch out...

 

[jdubya421]

I don't know if FCA implements this, but I have read that some ESS systems stop the motor with the pistons in the most efficient position to crank easily.

I have also read that some systems don't even really use the starter motor and can use the energy stored in the alternator.

I have also read this: "The gear ratio from the starter-drive pinion to the flywheel ring gear is optimized to make the starter's motor turn more slowly. This can be done without materially changing the design of the transmission or flywheel at all on existing designs. Crucially, this reduces starter-motor speed (in RPM), since 90 percent of starter-motor brush wear occurs not during cranking, but during the coast-down after the start has finished. If a higher-torque motor can spin more slowly, its coast-down time is shorter, increasing its longevity."

As well as: "The solenoid on start-stop starters decouples the mechanical action of engaging the drive pinion into the flywheel from the electrical action of stopping and starting the motor.

This allows for a dedicated design to turn power on and off to the motor, optimizing contact design and wear, against contacts that have to be integrated as part of a spring-loaded plunger."

I don't worry about the longevity of these components. I also don't understand why people complain about tech in vehicles and go on and on about how "back in my day cars moved with our feet and nothing ever broke!". Don't buy a new car then.

 

[scottijohn63]

When the fan is on high with or without the ac on the ess is disabled.

 

[nerubi]

I was going to say 4 hoofing but that sounded kind of obscene.
We need to manage and disciplne Texans. Wait, that sounds obscene.
Doesn't really matter anyway, AOC and the Green New Deal are going to ban all personal transportation devices in ten years. And cows.

 

[Gee-pah]

Hey Lawrence:

First off, your dad was right Cranking an engine isn't good for it. But the adage was also more true in his day than now, and the alternative, walking, well.....

As discussed above, engines and starters that operate in ESS vehicles are designed to take this abuse; but it's true, it's abuse, and less of it would come from no ESS. Only time will tell us how well these so called heavy duty component's MTBF metrics measure up.

Lots of people here hate ESS and I get that as much as I'm not in their camp (which is to simply say I tolerate, not like ESS.) They hate the engine wear and the opposition of it by government on them even when they're paying for the gasoline.*** Sure it's easy to disengage a variety of ways, from button press, to easy published hacks, to 3rd party equipment, but they don't like it in principle. It compromises their freedom; but then again so does pollution.

And further it's true...it's not a real big gas saver, but across the entire fleet of ESS vehicles it can really add up. By analogy, there was huge happiness when Remdesivir was announced as the mildest (like ESS gas savings) of COVID therapeutics. Maybe 3 less days of hospitalization.

But across 1000s of patients that is a good amount of less medical personal and equipment needed, apart from other benefits like understanding how it might work.

The good news is that this is transient technology or so the experts say. Electric vehicles are bound to take over ICE (internal combustion ones) and ESS is just a forced governmental stop gap measure to allow a fleet's overall MPGs to improve. I can't help think that many of its haters might tolerate it more if forced to pay (I'm guessing) $7,000 more per rig to help FCA pay (huge) penalties to the EPA for not meeting mileage standards.

Is this happening every time the vehicle stops you ask. No. Many criterion have to be met, and often but not always are, for it to engage. The vehicle has to be warmed up, level, the steering wheel not turned, the ESS battery has to have sufficient power, the brake fully pressed, the disable button or other mechanisms to defeat it not engage, and automatics cannot be in manual gears, to name a few. As to how frequently it happens depends in part on city, local, or highway driving.

If your looking for something to hate--and I'm not saying you are, the original cold crank logic with the 3.6L models, thanks to ESS and poor design IMHO was the real kicker. This logic may have changed in more recent 3.6L models, but a dead ESS battery, even in the presence of a fully charged main battery would strand you.

You ask about the ease of disabling. Well it's as simple as a button press, but deliberately, in order for FCA to get the CAFE standards credit, the button has to default to ESS enabled (i.e. non-latching) each time the rig cold cranks. So you have to remember, or use a hack that often throws a code on the instrument panel, or buy a CANBUS device (CANBUS is the car computing communication standard) device to send codes that simulate the button press when the rig's cold cranked. These cost $ and technically might best be disabled when you take your rig to the dealer for service. Frankly, many of us have gotten use to ESS. And as many have so above, it's by no means an exclusive FCA thing.

To your way of thinking Lawrence this feature was made, to paraphrase you, with much distance from customer preference. Fair? And you're right. It was made so FCA could avoid EPA penalty it would have to pass along to us in purchase price.

*** Like it or not, we don't pay, as expensive as it can be (well not right now in COVID) the true cost of gasoline when factoring in the environmental damage experts believe it costs. Like it or not, those willing to pay that price can fairly complain that government forces ESS on them, because these few people are paying for the costs of the pollution they cause. For the rest (ie. all) of us,, especially since we can turn ESS off, until we pay these extra costs, government that's force to clean these messes up, for all government's f ups, has right to try to limit how much we pollute.

Final thought, if you hate ESS and can't afford CANBUS tech, perhaps CANNIBUS tech will do the trick.

Happy wheeling.

 

[cosine]

at first i wasnt crazy on the idea on the ess and when i test drove one for the first time, i was like ok still wasnt gamed on the feature. it didnt take long after getting the jl, i've became acustom to the ess and use it all the time. i did a fuel / mpg test with and without ess each with a full tank of gas ran the same amount of mileage and condition. the ess does have the advantage in saving gas and increasing the mpg. so i think its a good feature.

 

[KrzybonesJLU]

My .2cents and to put it bluntly

ESS is the new normal. Those people who are not a fan just can’t or don’t like change. The JL is the first car I’ve owned that has this features. It was weird at first and Like a lot people was worried about unnecessary wear and tear. After doing research.. ESS has been around for a while, it is not anything new. The technology is there to handle the added start stop to the engine and parts. Of course you will always hear those horror stories where it’s failed or that it’s just junk. This should be expected. Shits not perfect there will always be a percentage of fails on everything.

 

[mjaga]

My .2cents and to put it bluntly

ESS is the new normal. Those people who are not a fan just can’t or don’t like change. The JL is the first car I’ve owned that has this features. It was weird at first and Like a lot people was worried about unnecessary wear and tear. After doing research.. ESS has been around for a while, it is not anything new. The technology is there to handle the added start stop to the engine and parts. Of course you will always hear those horror stories where it’s failed or that it’s just junk. This should be expected. Shits not perfect there will always be a percentage of fails on everything.

This. Every manufacturer has it. If I remember right, government mandates decrease in MPG across all manufacturers and this is the way to do it. Either shut down your business or adapt ESS(or variant) or severely reduce engine output. I don’t love it but as long as I can disable it I really can’t complain.

 

[sf5211]

We pay for the heavier starter, extra battery and computer to shut the engine so to me there goes your 6 cents per trip you save.
I’m glad the OP brought this topic up because this has been my biggest complaint about ESS.
I plan to keep my Jeep a long time. I can’t see how it’s good for that hot/thinned out oil dropping back down into the oil pan at every red light and now has to be pumped up to the top of the engine being ok.
As far as the vehicle manufacturers, hey if your engine wears a little sooner that’s great. Come on down and spend (I guess in 10-15 years) 90-100k for another new Wrangler.

 

[jeepoch]

I absolutely despise the environmental carbon credit (tax) socialism style politics behind why ESS is now mandated. If you really can't stand ESS and need to defeat it at all cost, then I really hope that you not vote for a liberal progressive politician again. The previous administration indirectly forced ESS implementation via its bureaucratic EPA rules increasing CAFE standards on the entire internal combustion industry.

Those manufacturers not able to comply with these higher standards would ultimately be forced into either buying carbon credits from Elon Musk (in order to subsidize the utopia of electric vehicles), or be hit with a carbon tax (i.e. governmental fines), which indeed like all corporate taxes would be passed directly down to us poor(er) consumers.

By the way, ask any of those California Tesla owners how efficient their cars were during the rolling blackouts last year? Many of them had to succumb to buying gas-powered generators in order to charge and drive them for their couple hundred mile range. I also wonder how many zero-emission vehicle drivers realize just how much they're polluting the planet by charging their super-toxic, heavy-metal batteries from coal-fired power plants? Most ignorantly smug in the thought that they're really making the world a better place.

I'm very (very) sorry for polluting this thread with politics, but this is exactly the reason why ESS is now a reality, and why you must always have to disable (rather than enable) it. Just be somewhat thankful that the government did not, or has not yet, mandated that it can't be bypassed (ever).

Regardless, independent on just how ESS came about, I'm a fan. I use it, never disable it and love the results (still hate the fact its mandated), go figure...

Jay

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