$20K markup!!!?

[Ron93YJ]

When i was shopping for my wrangler i went to look at a JK sport that was listed at $30k. Got there and theyre like, oh it has a lift, big tires etc and the price is actually $70k

What?!? It was listed as $30k and then it was $40k more when you got there?

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[Darthwrangler]

Go to airport jeep near Kansas City. Great dealership that was willing to sell at invoice for custom build.

 

[jeme]

If you shop it hard, are willing to wait and perhaps buy out of state you can get up to 8% below invoice. I just paid 6% below on an ordered 2023 Wrangler. Dealership is about 100 miles from my house in Florida. I cannot believe people pay those prices.

 

[Chrismeece74]

Called a dealer yesterday because they had a 22 Beach edition come in to see what the price was, Sticker was 54420, sales guy said out the door was $69k with nothing added, all market adjustment.

 

[rayzjeep]

Parks Motors in Augusta Kansas. Loaded Sahara. How do they get away with this ?

Go to Davis Moore and talk to Mason (if he's still the manager there). If they don't sell you one exactly like what you want for 12k under MSRP...tell them Kansas City will. That's what I did with my Jeep. I'm from Wichita.

 

[RAMSTEEL]

Nothing like overpaying for a depreciating asset.

Think again, the last three Jeeps we sold fitched more than we paid for them. It's crazy and I continue to get unsolicited offers on my 2020 F250 Platinum...I'm almost ready to let it go given we have other vehicles. It won't last forever but right now it's a seller's market.

 

[Majestic]

Jeeps have held their value well over the last few years, but this has been a very, very strange time...

Our 2019 Tiffin motorhome, which we bought in the spring of 2019, has actually appreciated -- truly appreciated, as in the dealer asked if we'd be willing to sell it back to them for a significant profit. (Sell, not trade). That's crazy. We also sold a 16 year old aluminum jet boat for more than we paid for it. Also crazy. RVs and boats are normally among the fastest depreciating assets you can buy. In forty years I have never seen RVs or late-model boats of any kind appreciate. Never. And in 42 of the 45 years I have been buying Jeeps they have depreciated normally/steeply. From about 1985 forward Jeeps also depreciated faster than most Subarus, Hondas, and Toyotas.

I wouldn't count on your Jeep holding it's most of it's present value.

I’ve never had a Jeep lose much in depreciation.. Wranglers are consistently at the top of every “lowest depreciation” list. The only way I can afford the new crazy prices Jeep keeps asking is by having so much equity in my trade.

 

[Whaler27]

I’ve never had a Jeep lose much in depreciation.. Wranglers are consistently at the top of every “lowest depreciation” list. The only way I can afford the new crazy prices Jeep keeps asking is by having so much equity in my trade.

As I said, this has been a relatively short term phenomenon. Depreciation rates are effected by many variables including inflation, supply, and demand. For most of the last 45 years CJs and Wranglers have depreciated like most other vehicles. Slower than some, like Escalades and Ford Excursions, but faster than others, like Tacomas and most Subarus...

Generally speaking, over decades, Jeeps have depreciated fairly quickly. It's been a good few years, but all we need to make the next five years different is an increase in parts availability and a significant decrease in demand. Recession, high gas prices, and inflation are likely to cause just that.

When we return to over-production, which I have seen many times before, and inventories increase, we'll see rebates again, and they invariably hurt the used market. It's a cycle.

I've seen some version of the above cycle several times over the last 45 years. Maybe it will never happen again.

But I doubt it.

 

[Majestic]

As I said, this has been a relatively short term phenomenon. Depreciation rates are effected by many variables including inflation, supply, and demand. For most of the last 45 years GJs and Wranglers have depreciated like most other vehicles. Slower than some, like Escalades and for Excursions, but faster than others, like Tacomas and subarus...

Generally speaking, over decades, Jeeps have depreciated fairly quickly. It's been a good few years, but all we need to make the next five years different is an increase in parts availability and a significant decrease in demand. Recession, high gas prices, and inflation van cause just that.

When we return to over-production, which I have seen many times before, and inventories increase, we'll see rebates again, and they invariably hurt the used market. It's a cycle.

I've seen some version of the above cycle several times over the last 45 years. Maybe it will never happen again.

But I doubt it.

I remember Jeep owners bragging about their resell value decades ago. I’ve owned a Jeep for the past 9 years. My last Jeep retained most of its value over the entire 6 years I owned it. My original justification for getting a new Jeep back then was that the used Jeeps were about the same price.

These days are strange but so far I’m just seeing that Jeep resell is higher than it is normally which was already really high. My Jeep right now is worth exactly what I paid 3 years ago for it instead of depreciating $4k.

Jeep’s problem isn’t depreciation, but that they raise the price so much in such a short time your equity barely covers the price increase when you trade up.

 

[Whaler27]

I remember Jeep owners bragging about their resell value decades ago. I’ve owned a Jeep for the past 9 years. My last Jeep retained most of its value over the entire 6 years I owned it. My original justification for getting a new Jeep back then was that the used Jeeps were about the same price.

These days are strange but so far I’m just seeing that Jeep resell is higher than it is normally which was already really high. My Jeep right now is worth exactly what I paid 3 years ago for it instead of depreciating $4k.

Jeep’s problem isn’t depreciation, but that they raise the price so much in such a short time your equity barely covers the price increase when you trade up.

We may have to agree to disagree.

This conversation usually arises in the context of somebody suggesting it‘s safe to buy a jeep, because you’ll be able to sell it for nearly what you paid, or maybe even more than you paid, if your circumstance changes and you need to sell it. That‘s a dangerous assumption, and I’ve seen people make similar mistakes before. The change in circumstance might well be the loss of a job — and that might well be the result of a recession. When that happens, and I’ve seen it happen three times, many thousands are losing their jobs, and suddenly lots of used jeeps and other vehicles are for sale, because people who financed cant make their payments. At the same time, fewer buyers are looking for new or used jeeps. Suddenly the manufactures are digging deep to compete for the diminishing number of buyers. Thats when the used values suffer most.

If inflation is crazy high, as it is now, it muddies the water — because even a steak or a loaf of bread kept in the freezer is increasing in value — because the dollar buys so much less every month. Because of these factors and others, my measure of depreciation includes an assessment of impact on relative buying power — as in “would my money have fared better somewhere else?” In other words, is a jeep really holding its “value” if the money you put into it would have retained more buying power if you put it almost anywhere else, including other vehicles?

I suppose it‘s possible that it‘s different in other parts of the country, but in the northwest since my first new Jeep in 1977, we’ve experienced many cycles of sluggish jeep and truck sales, followed by used-value-killing rebates on new inventory, followed by stronger jeep sales, — but until Covid arrived I had never seen a time when I couldn‘t find plenty of new CJ/Wrangler inventory sitting on lots and available for purchase at well below Monroni sticker. When I bought my 2019 JL at Roberson Jeep in Salem, Oregon they had more than 70 new Wranglers on the lot, and there were hundreds of others to choose from within 100 miles.

Used values are a function of new values and supply. If new prices soar due to inflation or limited availability the used prices jump up — but that’s not a uniquely jeep thing, nor is it an accurate benchmark for historical depreciation. Also, trade-in offers are a terrible proxy for ACV (actual cash value) of a vehicle, as there are so many ways to manipulate the trade number. (I can’t tell you how many times friends and family have reported getting “more than they paid” for their trade on a new vehicle…. At least nine times out of ten the dealer just slid some of the new vehicle margin over to inflate the trade value shown. In the early 2000s we bought a Dodge diesel truck for almost $11,000 below the Moroni sticker… That was the over-the-phone Dave Smith Dodge price because the rebates were so large. People who were trading another vehicle in could see $8000 more than their trade was actually worth on their paperwork, and still buy the new truck at $3,000 below Monroni, but they weren’t really selling their trade for that high price.) The best way to see what used vehicles are actually worth is to track their wholesale auction prices over time. In the northwest, the real winners for value-holding have been Subaru, Toyota, and Honda. The biggest loser is almost always Cadilliac, but other luxury brands usually don't fare well either.

COVID is unique because it limited access to essential components, paid people to leave the workforce, killed production capacity, and inflated the cost of fuel and transport. I expect that to pass, eventually, though maybe not if we continue to rely on unfriendly countries for critical components. Of course, no country would be stupid enough to rely upon potential enemies as the only source of critical materials needed to build cars, trucks, jets, and ships, right? So we’re probably gonna be just fine.

 

[Heimkehr]

Jeep’s problem isn’t depreciation, but that they raise the price so much in such a short time your equity barely covers the price increase when you trade up.

I recently used the Jeep configurator to build a 2022 Sport that was identical to my 2021. The price variance (increase) was $2,200.00.

Even when allowing for supply chain issues and such, that's a tough pill to swallow.

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