2024 4xe is disappointing... gets no range increase

[ck23]

For the average american the commute is 41 miles, the 4xe will do that in less than 1 gallon of gas instead of 2+ for the ice. Thats the target driver as their yearly fuel bill is cut in half or better. My wife fills up once a month now instead of every week because her commute is 15 miles round trip. If we didnt take it on the weekends it would never use gas.

Once you go past about 50 miles a day the savings decrease but still do not completely disappear for quite awhile.

This is exactly the rationale that has me strongly considering a 4XE for my next Wrangler. It depends on the day, but my commute can range from 12 miles round trip to 40-ish. Either way, in terms of using less gas you win, whether it is completely or partially. In addition, being a PHEV eliminates range anxiety that folks (like myself) just getting into electric may have.

Well, said!

Sponsored

 

[lindaspins]

I think you may be confusing EV with PHEV.

The 4xe is a PHEV - it's a normal gas engine with additional electric motors and battery. When the battery runs out, it just drives like a regular gas vehicle. You are not limited to only driving 20 miles at a time... you can keep driving after the battery dies until the 17 gallon fuel tank runs out.

EV's, on the other hand, are battery/electric motor only, and yes most people would want one that gets at least 150 miles on a charge, since once it runs out of battery the car becomes immobile. But that's not what a 4xe is.

Agreed with the exception that the battery never "runs out". It relies on stored capacity and goes into normal hybrid mode with constant charge/discharge. Electric is always assisting as needed, even in e-save mode. It's always a hybrid.

 

[lindaspins]

This is exactly the rationale that has me strongly considering a 4XE for my next Wrangler. It depends on the day, but my commute can range from 12 miles round trip to 40-ish. Either way, in terms of using less gas you win, whether it is completely or partially. In addition, being a PHEV eliminates range anxiety that folks (like myself) just getting into electric may have.

Well, said!

Keep in mind too that it's the 2nd most powerful Wrangler built, and is just plain fun to drive. Yes, even on the highway. The torque offroad is a dream and the quick acceleration on the highway gives me a big, stupid smile every time.

 

[Albertaktm]

Seriously - what is Jeep's aversion to adding more battery to the 4xE? I would keep buying them if they would just add more EV range, even if it was an "extended range" upgrade like most other EVs. 20 miles with their terrible regenerative recharge system is ridiculous.

My wife has a Kia Nero PHEV and the hybrid system in the Nero makes the 4xE seem like a joke -- and the Nero was half the price of my Jeep and has 50% more EV range and once your EV runs out and swaps over to hybrid the Nero still gets like 50MPG.

C'mon Jeep give me SOMETHING here. I really don't want to swap to a pure EV yet, especially with how I use my 4xE, but they're almost forcing me to look at the lightning or a R1T if I want to maintain off-road capability with more EV range at low temps and some modicum of basic towing.

How long does it take to recharge from flat dead battery? If you are plugged into your standard 120V 60hz 20 amp residential circuit? No special high speed direct DC charging.

 

[Bzinsky]

Seriously - what is Jeep's aversion to adding more battery to the 4xE? I would keep buying them if they would just add more EV range, even if it was an "extended range" upgrade like most other EVs. 20 miles with their terrible regenerative recharge system is ridiculous.

My wife has a Kia Nero PHEV and the hybrid system in the Nero makes the 4xE seem like a joke -- and the Nero was half the price of my Jeep and has 50% more EV range and once your EV runs out and swaps over to hybrid the Nero still gets like 50MPG.

C'mon Jeep give me SOMETHING here. I really don't want to swap to a pure EV yet, especially with how I use my 4xE, but they're almost forcing me to look at the lightning or a R1T if I want to maintain off-road capability with more EV range at low temps and some modicum of basic towing.

More battery is not the answer, it’s already a pretty large battery.

The problem is the wrangler gets 1.3m per kwh, the worst in the industry by a landslide, with one exception, the 9k lb hummer EV.

Why does the wrangler get 1.3m/kwh? Because in order to keep the wrangler drivetrain and solid axles, they can’t do the traditional EV motor mount. So what did they do? They used the ZF trans with the motor built in. This means that unlike most EV’s, the electric motor gets all the typical ICE drivetrain losses on acceleration AND deceleration regen. On top of that the wrangler is a rolling brick. Drivetrain and rolling resistance THE most important thing when it comes to EV’s and it’s what makes pure EV’s even possible. If you don’t do that you need a 200+ kwh battery to compensate and you and up with a 9k lb landmonster like the hummer. Which does not make economic sense for the manufacturer or the consumer.

There will never be a full EV wrangler because of this, unless they manage to adapt electric motors to directly to the solid axles, which has it’s own challenges and downsides because then you won’t have a drivetrain fully locked together which is highly beneficial for rock crawling. You’d also have to make it aerodynamic which would be a totally different vehicle.

Cliffs: The range sucks because it’s a wrangler. The only way for it to not suck is for a full redesign that is not a wrangler. Adding more battery is not the answer.

Also EV’s need to be thought of as net zero transportation. You use energy to accelerate, you get that energy back when you regen on deceleration. So the goal is to minimize the losses and get as close as possible to net zero. If you magically had no drivetrain losses, and your vehicle was in the shape of a landspeed record car, you could probably travel across the country on the 4xe’s battery. This is why efficiency is so important. Losses add up exponentially because you have them on accel and decel.

This is also why EV’s range drops off a cliff when you tow a trailer. But what they never tell you is that it’s not the weight that matters, it’s the aero and rolling resistance.

 

[Rangemaster]

Seriously - what is Jeep's aversion to adding more battery to the 4xE? I would keep buying them if they would just add more EV range, even if it was an "extended range" upgrade like most other EVs. 20 miles with their terrible regenerative recharge system is ridiculous.

My wife has a Kia Nero PHEV and the hybrid system in the Nero makes the 4xE seem like a joke -- and the Nero was half the price of my Jeep and has 50% more EV range and once your EV runs out and swaps over to hybrid the Nero still gets like 50MPG.

C'mon Jeep give me SOMETHING here. I really don't want to swap to a pure EV yet, especially with how I use my 4xE, but they're almost forcing me to look at the lightning or a R1T if I want to maintain off-road capability with more EV range at low temps and some modicum of basic towing.

too late to the party, the 4xe is waste of money Vs cost. I would have went eco diesel then, but those are out now also. In a couple of years they might have a new version, but it will lack MPG because of a underpowered motor. Just my two cents.

 

[mini2nut]

I predict the future BEV Wrangler will finally eliminate the solid axle design. Jeep will go with 2 or 4 electric motors, independent suspension and half shafts driving each wheel.

Yes, die hard Wrangler fans will protest but will adapt over time. The 90% of Wrangler buyers who never see dirt will love the civilized ride and handling.

 

[sconrad24]

More battery is not the answer, it’s already a pretty large battery.

The problem is the wrangler gets 1.3m per kwh, the worst in the industry by a landslide, with one exception, the 9k lb hummer EV.

Why does the wrangler get 1.3m/kwh? Because in order to keep the wrangler drivetrain and solid axles, they can’t do the traditional EV motor mount. So what did they do? They used the ZF trans with the motor built in. This means that unlike most EV’s, the electric motor gets all the typical ICE drivetrain losses on acceleration AND deceleration regen. On top of that the wrangler is a rolling brick. Drivetrain and rolling resistance THE most important thing when it comes to EV’s and it’s what makes pure EV’s even possible. If you don’t do that you need a 200+ kwh battery to compensate and you and up with a 9k lb landmonster like the hummer. Which does not make economic sense for the manufacturer or the consumer.

There will never be a full EV wrangler because of this, unless they manage to adapt electric motors to directly to the solid axles, which has it’s own challenges and downsides because then you won’t have a drivetrain fully locked together which is highly beneficial for rock crawling. You’d also have to make it aerodynamic which would be a totally different vehicle.

Cliffs: The range sucks because it’s a wrangler. The only way for it to not suck is for a full redesign that is not a wrangler. Adding more battery is not the answer.

Also EV’s need to be thought of as net zero transportation. You use energy to accelerate, you get that energy back when you regen on deceleration. So the goal is to minimize the losses and get as close as possible to net zero. If you magically had no drivetrain losses, and your vehicle was in the shape of a landspeed record car, you could probably travel across the country on the 4xe’s battery. This is why efficiency is so important. Losses add up exponentially because you have them on accel and decel.

This is also why EV’s range drops off a cliff when you tow a trailer. But what they never tell you is that it’s not the weight that matters, it’s the aero and rolling resistance.

That’s a good point about the drive train loses. Jeep built the 4xe to ease people into going electric. They wanted to keep the Wrangler as close as possible to ICE versions. Can you imagine if they did what most companies are doing and making one axle ICE powered and the other electric powered? Essentially making the 4xe fwd with an electric rear axle? Or keep the drivetrain intact, ditched the transfer case, and powered the front axle with an electric motor? People would be up in arms.

 

[ALRUI]

Until some breakthrough in battery technologies comes along the range on these & other vehicles isn't going to improve.

 

[pyrowolf]

Funny how people buy certain vehicles because of their characteristics but are then shocked to find out those characteristics make them not as good as other vehicles without those characteristics.

Funny how people buy things they like but would like them to be better.

Nobody ever buys a bleeding-edge cell phone from one brand with the latest massive screen but wishes it had a faster refresh rate, or a better battery, or quicker charging, or whatever new whiz-bang features come out on other phones from other brands.

What a bizarre take.

 

[John VonJeep]

 

[sentience]

I mean, what did you expect? It’s got the aerodynamic drag coefficient of a brick. Doesn’t matter if it’s gas, electricity, or pixy dust. It’s not going to be efficient compared to other PHEVs.

Any major upgrades to range would either necessitate a larger battery (more cost ala long range Tesla variants) or a fundamental change in battery technology (solid state, other).

It’s a specialized niche variant of a niche vehicle.

 

[pyrowolf]

Any major upgrades to range would either necessitate a larger battery

And we've come full circle .

I get that it's hard. I'm not denying that it's not a challenging issue. I'd even be willing to pay more. I just wish there was any movement on increasing the range in 3 years is all.

Maybe once they've worked out the kinks in the full EV version that'll add expertise to expand the PHEV range.

 

[BXFXJeep]

And we've come full circle .

I get that it's hard. I'm not denying that it's not a challenging issue. I'd even be willing to pay more. I just wish there was any movement on increasing the range in 3 years is all.

Maybe once they've worked out the kinks in the full EV version that'll add expertise to expand the PHEV range.

Any ideas as to where they would put larger battery on the JL?

 

[LCW]

Correction on Title - Should read: "4XE Is Disappointing. It's not just the 2024." lol

Sponsored