2019 lemon

[TheRaven]

He's right though, and also wrong. After replacing the camshaft you are supposed to recalibrate the VVT system.

He's wrong, and crazy. I made no mention of replacing camshafts. I simply noted that the idea that you can avoid having to ever go to a dealer with a JL is laughable, and that's true. All the rest of his rambling nonsense was fabricated solely by him.

In your area I see several shops that show the capability to do the level of work you are referring to.

Name a couple.

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[Deleted User 38384]

You really have no idea what you're talking about...and you didn't even read the relevant posts.

You would be best served to quietly exit this particular conversation. Go ahead, we won't say anything.

He's right though, and also wrong. After replacing the camshaft you are supposed to recalibrate the VVT system.

In your area I see several shops that show the capability to do the level of work you are referring to.

@TheRaven

 

[TheRaven]

(incoherence)

 

[mwilk012]

He's wrong, and crazy. I made no mention of replacing camshafts. I simply noted that the idea that you can avoid having to ever go to a dealer with a JL is laughable, and that's true. All the rest of his rambling nonsense was fabricated solely by him.



Name a couple.

I would start with Lee Myles. Appears quite professional.

 

[Deleted User 38384]

He's wrong, and crazy. I made no mention of replacing camshafts. I simply noted that the idea that you can avoid having to ever go to a dealer with a JL is laughable, and that's true. All the rest of his rambling nonsense was fabricated solely by him.

Name a couple.

I can't believe I have to do this.

@TheRaven , You said this...

You need to look for another dealer. By far the biggest problem with the modern Jeep Wrangler is the dealer service dept. Contrary to a popular opinion on here, an independent mechanic isn't really an option because the vast majority of issues you are going to encounter with the JL can only be handled at a dealer.

But I am not surprised at the issues you've had - the JL is not like past Jeeps. Everyone is used to the JK because it existed for so long, but the JK was a German/American design...the JL is an Italian design. It's like comparing a BMW to a Ferrari. If you rank dependability and quality at the top of your list, a Jeep is not for you. If you rank adventure up there and don't mind enduring some problems then the JL is your ticket.

I quoted the specific part in bold and responded with this...

Do you even wrench bro?

Jokes aside, if you know nothing about vehicles and working on them, just say so. Don't make false statements about things you know nothing about.

The only thing stopping you from changing your own camshaft on your Wrangler JL is the time and effort you want to put into it.

If you like going to the dealership handing them a wad of money and hoping that solves all your problems, just say so. There's no shame in going to the dealership. Lots of people do it. Not everyone is capable of working on their vehicles themselves.

The camshaft was an example of something you can do on your own in your garage if you have the right tools. (If you go back and read the very first post in this thread, TC mentions how the dealer had to replace a camshaft. You never mentioned a camshaft, but the topic creator did. Don't get all bent out of shape, I never said that you mentioned camshaft. It was an example, stop overreacting.) Tools that you can buy on this Website. I myself am a member of this website, as proof that you don't need to have an automotive shop to buy the same tools the dealerships have.

There is nothing in here that has been fabricated as you so claim. All that happened was you got called out for a false statement. You don't like it, don't make false statements!

Contrary to a popular opinion on here, an independent mechanic isn't really an option because the vast majority of issues you are going to encounter with the JL can only be handled at a dealer.

 

[Deleted User 38384]

(Can't admit he's wrong, because he'd also be admitting that he made an *** of himself)

You could have made it a learning lesson, instead you got schooled!

 

[Asuriyan]

CAN communication networks added in the JK model were a very serious change that most people (techs included) do not understand at all.

Very true. And my statement may have been a bit hyperbolic. The point I wanted to make was that the Wrangler‘s design has been so stable over time (to say nothing of its CJ forebears) that it’s a complete anomaly among passenger vehicles. And a lot of the common points of failure are because compromises have been made to bring a thoroughly antiquated design in line with ‘modern’ (read: government mandated) standards of safety and convenience.

The CAN bus is a perfect example. The TJ has its own electrical gremlins, and the ECM on the legendary 4.0 isn’t immune to issues - it just used a CCD bus (later PCI). The move to CAN for the JK was primarily to accommodate a BCM and associated wiring for ABS, power locks, etc. That wasn’t Daimler influence… that was US government mandates that went into effect in 2008. And the issues there were mostly poor quality sensors, shoddy wiring, and questionable routing - combined with a vehicle designed for maximum suspension travel, and prone to body flex. But, tweaks were made and the quality of sensors improved over the run of the JK, and the final CAN architecture carried over nearly wholesale to the JL, albeit with a significantly more complex BCM.

TL;DR: the Italians are too busy designing crossovers to give a shit what the Wrangler team does, and the Auburn Hills folks are more than capable of screwing up their own electrical systems without any help from the corporate overlord of the month; no Chrysler product I’ve ever owned has been an exception - my personal experience is that the JL improved more over the JK than it broke. I think this thread is devolving into memes and slander, so I’ll rest my case there.

 

[mwilk012]

Very true. And my statement may have been a bit hyperbolic. The point I wanted to make was that the Wrangler‘s design has been so stable over time (to say nothing of its CJ forebears) that it’s a complete anomaly among passenger vehicles. And a lot of the common points of failure are because compromises have been made to bring a thoroughly antiquated design in line with ‘modern’ (read: government mandated) standards of safety and convenience.

The CAN bus is a perfect example. The TJ has its own electrical gremlins, and the ECM on the legendary 4.0 isn’t immune to issues - it just used a CCD bus (later PCI). The move to CAN for the JK was primarily to accommodate a BCM and associated wiring for ABS, power locks, etc. That wasn’t Daimler influence… that was US government mandates that went into effect in 2008. And the issues there were mostly poor quality sensors, shoddy wiring, and questionable routing - combined with a vehicle designed for maximum suspension travel, and prone to body flex. But, tweaks were made and the quality of sensors improved over the run of the JK, and the final CAN architecture carried over nearly wholesale to the JL, albeit with a significantly more complex BCM.

TL;DR: the Italians are too busy designing crossovers to give a shit what the Wrangler team does, and the Auburn Hills folks are more than capable of screwing up their own electrical systems without any help from the corporate overlord of the month; no Chrysler product I’ve ever owned has been an exception - my personal experience is that the JL improved more over the JK than it broke. I think this thread is devolving into memes and slander, so I’ll rest my case there.

The quality of the TIPM and PCM's on the JK's is still very poor. There are very few cars out there that control module failure is even on the list of common items, and the JK is certainly one of them.

 

[J.Ferreira]

You need to look for another dealer. By far the biggest problem with the modern Jeep Wrangler is the dealer service dept. Contrary to a popular opinion on here, an independent mechanic isn't really an option because the vast majority of issues you are going to encounter with the JL can only be handled at a dealer.

But I am not surprised at the issues you've had - the JL is not like past Jeeps. Everyone is used to the JK because it existed for so long, but the JK was a German/American design...the JL is an Italian design. It's like comparing a BMW to a Ferrari. If you rank dependability and quality at the top of your list, a Jeep is not for you. If you rank adventure up there and don't mind enduring some problems then the JL is your ticket.

You think BMWs are better engineered and more reliable than a Ferrari?

 

[J.Ferreira]

Distributor?

 

[TheRaven]

I would start with Lee Myles. Appears quite professional.

That's a chain, not an independent. Same exact techs you'll find at a dealership.

No, I mean an actual independent, with guys who have been there for years, with a reputation for taking ownership of issues and seeing them through. Not a place where your vehicle gets tossed into a queue for the "next up" who is given a script to follow because he has no actual experience with the issue despite the fact that it's a known issue that's existed since the first MY of the vehicle.

You did say "several" though so maybe you have a better example?

I can't believe I have to do this.

I can't believe you still think you belong here...

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/goodbye-ecodiesel-hello-fuel-efficiency.123419/

Take your childishness elsewhere, no one here is interested.

You think BMWs are better engineered and more reliable than a Ferrari?

No question. Anyone who's ever owned both knows same. NOTE - I am not in ANY way claiming that BMWs are "well engineered and reliable". Not at all. But definitely better than Ferrari. Ferrari is a company that coasts on its heritage and a culture of "you don't question our holiness". Just take a look at their racing teams. Beautiful and desirable? Yes. High quality? Absolutely not.

 

[Deleted User 38384]

That's a chain, not an independent. Same exact techs you'll find at a dealership.

No, I mean an actual independent, with guys who have been there for years, with a reputation for taking ownership of issues and seeing them through. Not a place where your vehicle gets tossed into a queue for the "next up" who is given a script to follow because he has no actual experience with the issue despite the fact that it's a known issue that's existed since the first MY of the vehicle.

You did say "several" though so maybe you have a better example?




I can't believe you still think you belong here...

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/goodbye-ecodiesel-hello-fuel-efficiency.123419/

Take your childishness elsewhere, no one here is interested.




No question. Anyone who's ever owned both knows same. NOTE - I am not in ANY way claiming that BMWs are "well engineered and reliable". Not at all. But definitely better than Ferrari. Ferrari is a company that coasts on its heritage and a culture of "you don't question our holiness". Just take a look at their racing teams. Beautiful and desirable? Yes. High quality? Absolutely not.

You've hijacked someone elses thread and now you're beefing with everyone in it, unable to back down even though multiple people have called you out on your ludicrous statements.

 

[mwilk012]

So, a successful independent doesn't count?

 

[TheRaven]

So, a successful independent doesn't count?

It might, give an example. All you proposed so far was a chain that's no different than a dealership.

 

[mwilk012]

It might, give an example. All you proposed so far was a chain that's no different than a dealership.

Of course they’re different. Are they owned by or have any partnership with the manufacturer? No. You just don’t like that the business succeeded well enough to have multiple locations. You’re not looking for solutions.

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