0w20 more engine wear?

[Byrds8]

I have put 0w-20 in mine since I got it. However, in various threads, I keep seeing people say the same engines overseas have different requirements. Much like 5w-30 for the 3.6L. Why is this? I have not actually seen anyone say why its different somewhere else for the same engine. Thanks

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[jav_eee]

I have put 0w-20 in mine since I got it. However, in various threads, I keep seeing people say the same engines overseas have different requirements. Much like 5w-30 for the 3.6L. Why is this? I have not actually seen anyone say why its different somewhere else for the same engine. Thanks

“The engineers know what’s best!”

Yeah, they know what’s best for business. They’re not making vehicles to last forever, they need them to break so you get another one. Change the oil sooner than the dash tells you to, bump up the weight if it makes you feel better. 5w-30 is what I’m using next time.

 

[Byrds8]

“The engineers know what’s best!”

Yeah, they know what’s best for business. They’re not making vehicles to last forever, they need them to break so you get another one. Change the oil sooner than the dash tells you to, bump up the weight if it makes you feel better. 5w-30 is what I’m using next time.

So I take it there is literally nothing different between the engines themselves that would warrant different recommended oil use?

 

[azjl#3]

I love this topic. It's on every single automotive forum. With exactly the same arguments and walls of text. Every. Single. Time.

Run what the manufacturer recommends. Run the fluid the motor was designed, engineered, tested, and built upon.

Or don't. Come up with [reason, justification, shade tree mechanic study or amateur "book"] written online by [Retired Old Expert Guy] or [Youtuber] on [Forum].

Change your oil weight by one class. Hell, be daring, go two up. Go from 0w20 to 5w20, even 5w30!

Now, stare at your temp gauge for hours and hours, and imagine that you just feel the difference. Imagine that it really is, indeed, better.

And then carry on. Have fun wheeling.

Next topic.

Yeah, agreed.

 

[azjl#3]

Project Farm wear scar machine is what county and state fair hucksters use to use 30+ years selling whatever miracle lube or additive they were pitching at the time. Has no basis for motor oil wear testing per ATSM standards. You can put dandruff shampoo in his machine and it will give a better small wear scar than most oils.

His coffee pot and drug dealer gram scale also does not simulate in any regard to DIN standards for NOACK testing which requires a way more complicated setup that uses a known reference standard oil to get results that are then benched against a motor oil that is being tested. DIN Noack testing does not but two tested oils off each other, only the reference standard oil.

His oil test videos are entertainment only. Nothing one would write an engineering white paper against. Only gives confirmation bias to those camps of whatever particular brand he claims comes out on top.

This is what I am talking about. The brutal wear test is not duplicated anywhere inside a modern engine. Every part is a roller or bushing feed by oil. Not a grinder on a part of metal. Only true test is top fill up identical motors, run them for 100,000's of thousands of miles, tear them down, inspect. They used to do that back in the 70's I seem to remember.

 

[jav_eee]

So I take it there is literally nothing different between the engines themselves that would warrant different recommended oil use?

Difference is they don’t have to meet US MPG requirementsz

 

[Heimkehr]

So I take it there is literally nothing different between the engines themselves that would warrant different recommended oil use?

Only a comprehensive, side-by-side examination would confirm what, if anything, is different between US-spec and foreign market engines that share the same nomenclature, or designation.

Such things can vary even within a single market. E.g., the California-spec version of my carbureted motorcycle has an emissions fitment (a so-called PAIR valve) that the 49 state-version bikes don't have. When the same model was still being sold in overseas markets, those bikes were equipped with electronic throttle position sensors that the US models didn't have.

Only a trained eye would know to look for the aforementioned encumbrances. The same might be true for the Wrangler's powerplants. Possibly any such variances in the builds would compel a different oil viscosity. Or not.

 

[Byrds8]

Only a comprehensive, side-by-side examination would confirm what, if anything, is different between US-spec and foreign market engines that share the same nomenclature, or designation.

Such things can vary even within a single market. E.g., the California-spec version of my carbureted motorcycle has an emissions fitment (a so-called PAIR valve) that the 49 state-version bikes don't have. When the same model was still being sold in overseas markets, those bikes were equipped with electronic throttle position sensors that the US models didn't have.

Only a trained eye would know to look for the aforementioned encumbrances. The same might be true for the Wrangler's powerplants. Possibly any such variances in the builds would compel a different oil viscosity. Or not.

So, in other words, there is no way to really know if the 3.6 sold here is truly identical to one sold anywhere else.

I remember, back in the day, when they would recommend different for different climates lol. I guess I’m one of those that still think 5w-30 is a good all around weight oil.

 

[speedymart]

The amount of plastics that Jeep is using in these vehicles is asinine at best. Using the oil cooler as an example, Dorman is able to make it from aluminum, Ford and Mercedes can (and FCA should have copied that when Daimler owned Jeep) so why can't FCA? In addition, if plastic is going to be used, then make damn sure the design has enough support and clamping force to seal it. Had FCA machined grooves into the block for the orings to go into, the support would have been substantial. As it is, the orings harden and without "bottom" support, they simply start leaking and despite more than a decade of evidence, no improvements were made to ensure they will not leak. LAF

Plastic valve covers, plastic radiator tanks, plastic ball joint internals, plastic FAD bushing are great examples of what you should not do. In fairness many OEMs are doing this, but there are some who have a brain on where they should not be used. Color me unimpressed...

There is no issues with the design of the oil cooler. I wish people would stop blaming it on being 'plastic'. It leaks because the rubber gaskets at the bottom (which your fancy aluminum once will also use) crack and break down over enough heat cycles. Dealers would originally replace the entire cooler because the $15 gasket kit wasn't available yet, leading to everyone believing it was the cooler itself leaking.

The only issue these oil coolers legitimately had was the oil control valve on early 11-13 units where the valve would degrade and pop out with the oil filter resulting in oil pump DTCs. The fix is $12 for a new spring valve and 3 minutes of labor.


People who blame the plastic design are throwing a red flag in that they have absolutely no idea what they're talking about and just regurgitating shit they heard on the internet.

 

[speedymart]

I have put 0w-20 in mine since I got it. However, in various threads, I keep seeing people say the same engines overseas have different requirements. Much like 5w-30 for the 3.6L. Why is this? I have not actually seen anyone say why its different somewhere else for the same engine. Thanks

The 3.6l was originally designed for 5w-30. It was then reduced to 5w-20 for fleet EPA standards after testing revealed no significant additional wear occurred when running it. This was once again reduced to 0w-20 as oil technology improved resulting in good 0w oils. 0W-20 is quite literally water when it is used in a hot engine that been driven at high RPM for an extended period of time.

I strongly suggest going with the original design specification of 5w-30 if you have a first gen pentastar, and 0w-30 if you have a second gen pentastar.

 

[Heimkehr]

0W-20 is quite literally water when it is used in a hot engine that been driven at high RPM for an extended period of time.

It's darn close to water when still in the bottle, come to that. It's also the sole oil specification for our two Hondas. I'm not yet brave enough to try a 5W-20 or 5W-30. To be fair, both vehicles live comparatively easy lives, and the used oil analysis reports from Blackstone Labs don't mention anything untoward.

Perhaps my perception is colored by the motorcycle oils which I handle much more frequently. 10W-40 and especially 20W-50 are, to my Generation X eyes, what oil should look and flow like.

 

[speedymart]

It's darn close to water when still in the bottle, come to that. It's also the sole oil specification for our two Hondas. I'm not yet brave enough to try a 5W-20 or 5W-30. To be fair, both vehicles live comparatively easy lives, and the used oil analysis reports from Blackstone Labs don't mention anything untoward.

Perhaps my perception is colored by the motorcycle oils which I handle much more frequently. 10W-40 and especially 20W-50 are, to my Generation X eyes, what oil should look and flow like.

0w-20 has been proven to not add any additional significant wear under normal driving scenarios. If you're constantly racing the engine at high RPM you will 100% see the downfalls of using this lighter oil.

Like 99% of the vehicles on the road at automatics, and the amount of those that see frequent redline is even less. Most will only get near it if they need to floor is when accelerating onto an on-ramp or something.

Manuals see high RPM use much more frequently as they're usually driven by those who enjoy more spirited driving. My 2016 JK only saw 5w-20 oil for the first oil change and then was strictly 5w-30 until I installed an edelbrock supercharge at which point I began running 5w-40. Never had a single rocker arm failure (or leaking oil filter housing) for the time we owned it. Got stolen around 44k miles this year.

 

[CarbonSteel]

There is no issues with the design of the oil cooler. I wish people would stop blaming it on being 'plastic'. It leaks because the rubber gaskets at the bottom (which your fancy aluminum once will also use) crack and break down over enough heat cycles. Dealers would originally replace the entire cooler because the $15 gasket kit wasn't available yet, leading to everyone believing it was the cooler itself leaking.

The only issue these oil coolers legitimately had was the oil control valve on early 11-13 units where the valve would degrade and pop out with the oil filter resulting in oil pump DTCs. The fix is $12 for a new spring valve and 3 minutes of labor.


People who blame the plastic design are throwing a red flag in that they have absolutely no idea what they're talking about and just regurgitating shit they heard on the internet.

I will totally disagree with this with an explanation. If the o-rings were sitting in a machined part of the block, the leaks would be dramatically reduced. There is ZERO support for the bottom side of the o-rings--it is a completely flat surface, so yes, totally a design issue that the plastic contributes to.

How? Simple:

While replacing mine, after fully torquing it down, I found that if you push on each side of the oil filter cap, I could see the entire cooler body flexing and YES, it was properly torqued and in the correct sequence. This works as a lever while the changing of the oil filter and the loosening/tightening of the cap serves to effectively work the cooler from side to side and over time helps the o-rings begin to leak.

If it were made of aluminum, you would not be able to do any of that because it would not flex or move. Part of the issue with the Dorman is the off-brand o-rings that were not designed at all, but are some third party copy of the Mopar. With that said, it is obvious the Mopar o-rings are not well designed either, but some of the limitations would be corrected if there was an o-ring boss in the block for them to fit into--not matter what the housing was made from.

So, yes, overall it IS a design issue that spans multiple parts. Feel free to disagree...

 

[UncleJimmy]

0w-20 has been proven to not add any additional significant wear under normal driving scenarios. If you're constantly racing the engine at high RPM you will 100% see the downfalls of using this lighter oil.

Like 99% of the vehicles on the road at automatics, and the amount of those that see frequent redline is even less. Most will only get near it if they need to floor is when accelerating onto an on-ramp or something.

Manuals see high RPM use much more frequently as they're usually driven by those who enjoy more spirited driving. My 2016 JK only saw 5w-20 oil for the first oil change and then was strictly 5w-30 until I installed an edelbrock supercharge at which point I began running 5w-40. Never had a single rocker arm failure (or leaking oil filter housing) for the time we owned it. Got stolen around 44k miles this year.

I trying to make sense of the different opinions in this thread. It seems then, you are saying that for 99% of us the 0W-20 is fine. Perhaps if towing in higher rev ranges or racing then maybe a thicker viscosity is better. Is this correct?

 

[azwjowner]

I trying to make sense of the different opinions in this thread. It seems then, you are saying that for 99% of us the 0W-20 is fine. Perhaps if towing in higher rev ranges or racing then maybe a thicker viscosity is better. Is this correct?

The real bottom line is if the oil weight worries you, have your oil analyzed at every change and observe the wear metals. That's the ultimate test.

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