Lemon Law Arbitration vs. Litigation

[TrailTorque]

Just on the outside looking in. I’ve read through these and some good debates in here.

So what say you @KnG818 or @Wabujitsu to @Punkindave who has had (2) JL Wranglers where (1) ‘wandered quite a bit’ and (1) tracks straight as an arrow (before and after mods)?

Curious.

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[First Jeep Johnny]

Well stated. I just don’t get all this fuss. If money is no object and you just want justice against FCA then fight on brother. Be prepared to spend money as you are one person going against a company that probably has hundreds on staff that just need something to do to keep their job. They will put up a damn pretty good fight.

If money is the concern I just don’t get any of you. You are talking about multiple trips to the dealer to fix this issue. The time it takes for all these trips. Are you all unemployed with nothing else to spend time on. Your time has got to be worth something per hour doesn’t it? What about the aggravation and headache? Doesn’t that matter? Also the option of dumping the Jeep. It is $5k or probably closer to $10k.

There is a simple fix. Go spend a few hours dropping your rig off at the local Indy, buy the PSC steering and spend about $3k and voila your rig is fixed. Then you can move on down the road and actually enjoy your ride.

All this fuss about parking your rig, incurring rental costs, your time value of money, your headache and the list goes on and on. Either I am old or life is too short in my mind. I spent the $3k and now driving a vehicle that I should have received from the factory. Oh well she is good now.

I have been looking for someone who has done the PSC steering system. Very interested to hear how it drives and what it is like.

 

[Rdmitch]

I love it when people post this
Let me ask you this, who has more time and money? You or FCA?
It's not an excuse. It's reality.

FYI
in Ohio the law allows for fee shifting meaning all costs are borne by FCA.
My litigation with FCA costs me nothing.
The drawback is time, it’s been 6 weeks so far and I don’t anticipate a court date to be set for another few weeks unless they offer a settlement for a replacement.

 

[TrailTorque]

 

[Woodbridge]

OP here.

I have had an attorney since the 3rd time the vehicle went into the dealership. I have 6 repair orders and 34 total days out of service. To make things worse, the dealership actually damaged the front busing linkage on the steering arm in the process of one of the repairs and had to replace that at their cost.

You would think after 6 work orders and 34 days out of service that FCA would have offered a buyback. But, they go so hard back and forth of, “driving as designed” and throwing parts at the car to try to “resolve” the issue. I waited about 8 weeks or so for FCA to get back to my attorney about the buyback which they are refusing to do. They offered a cash settlement, but it’s not enough to recover my losses.

The attorney advised me to go to the new car sales as if I was going to trade in the vehicle. They offered $30,000 for trade and my payoff is $37,500 (I have only had it since 5/22/2018). It’s also not enough to cover the cost of the after market “fixes.” And I am NOT taking a loss on their mistakes.

The attorney works on a contingency basis. Therefore, I haven’t paid anything so far.

In my state (Maryland) the arbitrator is not able to award attorney fees. The attorney wouldn’t be assisting me with the arbitration because there would be no way for them to get paid. Which I completely understand and don’t expect anyone to work for free because I certainly don’t. After dealing with all of this since mid June, I don’t think I could mentally handle the additional stresses of going through arbitration on my own. And in the end to just have them refuse a buyback and still have to wait for a trial date.

So, we are officially heading to trial at this point and I have a feeling that these next few months are going to be a nightmare.

HEY FCA!!!!! If it is "driving as designed" why are you wasting time and money replacing parts??? I thought they were "driving as designed"!! The simple fact that FCA is claiming they are "driving as designed" but they are still replacing parts and trying to service them sounds like an admission of guilt to us......

 

[KnG818]

I just deleted...this thread is a joke. Better things to do

 

[TrailTorque]

@KnG818

Another member has brought up a great point and one that relates to your previous post. Also, thank you for replying.

If it is ‘driving by design’, why do they (FCA) continue to replace parts and perform steering related recall?

Recall on SS
New revision trackbars (TSB)
New revision steering boxes
New revision pitman arms

Dealerships are replacing said items at the requests of the customers on the dealerships own dime at will without much, if any confrontations.

It would appear from the outside looking into this thread that FCA is wasting a lot of money on a set in stone ‘by design’ product based on your statements.

Why would they do this?

 

[GreyFox]

@KnG818

Another member has brought up a great point and one that relates to your previous post. Also, thank you for replying.

If it is ‘driving by design’, why do they (FCA) continue to replace parts and perform steering related recall?

Recall on SS
New revision trackbars (TSB)
New revision steering boxes
New revision pitman arms

Dealerships are replacing said items at the requests of the customers on the dealerships own dime at will without much, if any confrontations.

It would appear from the outside looking into this thread that FCA is wasting a lot of money on a set in stone ‘by design’ product based on your statements.

Why would they do this?

To appease the crying masses that should have bought a fucking car

 

[TrailTorque]

Why did you delete your last post? You gave a detailed response that I actually wanted to see what @Punkindave take would have been. In theory, there should be no difference between Wranglers if your statements are true.

 

[TrailTorque]

To appease the crying masses that should have bought a fucking car

That’s a heck of a lot of money!

 

[GreyFox]

That’s a heck of a lot of money!

Maybe... Maybe not. Only the bean counters know. Anyway, I'm tired of seeing the same people bitch about it. So I'll show myself to the door.

 

[TrailTorque]

Maybe... Maybe not. Only the bean counters know. Anyway, I'm tired of seeing the same people bitch about it. So I'll show myself to the door.

I’m simply just trying to understand both sides to the argument here. So far, one side has what they believe to be evidence and the other has a motto. It’s actually quite entertaining!

 

[NFRs2000NYC]

I was given 2 options today since FCA is refusing a buyback.

I can either try Arbitration or go directly to litigation / trial.

Has anyone so far had to make this decision? If you can't post publicly, please PM me. Looking for opinions.

Arbitration is often loser pays, so be careful. Arbitration (if the facts are on your side) is cheaper, no stupid jury to decide, just one arbitrator that is USUALLY pro consumer. If I had to choose (again, I dont know your specific case and how solid it is) I would probably lean a little bit towards arbitration.

 

[NFRs2000NYC]

My experience is NOT to do arbitration. Go the legal route straight away.

Reasons:
1.) I did arbitration for my 2019 JLU bought in 3/19 because of 2 inch of steering play and because Jeep told me "to live if it, there is nothing they can do" after 35 days in workshop. They agreed that it drives like a 50 year old panel van with worn out steering but it is not worse compared to other JLU's on the lot.
2.) I lost arbitration since in FCA eyes I could not demonstrate one of the three things:
a.) loss in value,
b.) safety issue
c.) limitation of use

Arbitration result:
Value:
There is no limitation of value since there is nothing wrong with the JLU !!!!!!
Safety:
Since I had no accidents ( and I am still alive) the vehicle is safe. Despite the fact that my JLU can not be driven in a straight line since the steering play is forcing the driver to continuously to correct.
Use:
I drove 10800 mls up to the date of arbitration and this is more than average. Therefore there is no limitation of use.

The NCDS arbitrator was an arrogant guy who just followed FCA's lawyers line. I feel this process is pretty rigged towards the car manufacturers. Nobody cared that I had to take my lift out and make my JLU stock to even have a chance in arbitration. And even then the FCA lawyer argumented that the previous (Non Mopar) lift might have damaged the vehicle in a way and that I was responsible for the steering issue.

An additional issue with arbitration came up two days ago and this issue is very concerning. Since the arbitrator and FCA found that there is nothing wrong and 2 inches of steering play is normal, the regional Jeep manager instructed my dealer not to entertain any steering related warranty work on my JLU since there are " Things are going on with this Jeep and its owner" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Background:
After the arbitration decision I switched the dealerships. They took the JLU in and told me that they are not sure if Jeep with pay for the rental car. but they gave me a rental car. The dealership the first time did a good job and consulted a FCA engineer. This engineer found the steering gear to be defective and to be replaced additionally they found tool marks on the steering gear. At this time the regional FCA manager got involved. She shut down the hole repair process and they charged me 5 days of car rental. I made the mistake to try to adjust the steering gear adjustment screw by an 1/8. It improved the steering a little bit but not much. Therefore I put it back to spec after a test drive. Unfortunately my desperate search for a solution to the steering problem backfired badly.


Lessons learned:
1.) If you deal with a problem which has no official FCA solution , take a lawyer,
2) If you have a problem which is not fixed by FCA DO NOT USE the vehicle! Drop it off at FCA dealerships and request rental cars. Have your safety concerns stated in the repair request. If the vehicle is not fixed after a repair bring it back immediately and request a rental car. If the do not give you a rental car anymore, get a lawyer and pay for the rental yourself. Do not be nice to the the dealer. Nobody in the dealership is going to hug you after you lost an arbitration case!
3.) Warranty is not worth a thing if it is denied.
4.) Do not buy a new FCA vehicle and do not buy a model which is not at least 3 years in the market. FCA seem to have a big issue with their suppliers and quality control and is solving their issues on the back of their customers.
5) This is the last FCA vehicle I will have bought new.
6.) I spent so far about 200 hours and $2000 fighting FCA with the result that I am on my own. Now I have to spent another $1500 to replace the steering gear.
7.) Do not think of burning your car, taking a hammer to it in front of TV cameras and the dealership. Do not run it of the road or against a tree. I thought already of all of it. Take a lawyer.

Who picked your arbitrator?

 

[FFCars]

Get a lawyer and go to trial.

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