Lemon Law Arbitration vs. Litigation

[glang1992]

I was given 2 options today since FCA is refusing a buyback.

I can either try Arbitration or go directly to litigation / trial.

Has anyone so far had to make this decision? If you can't post publicly, please PM me. Looking for opinions.

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[viper88]

I was given 2 options today since FCA is refusing a buyback.

I can either try Arbitration or go directly to litigation / trial.

Has anyone so far had to make this decision? If you can't post publicly, please PM me. Looking for opinions.

Consult with a lemon law lawyer in the State you bought your Wrangler. First consultation is usually free. Good luck.

 

[glang1992]

Consult with a lemon law lawyer in the State you bought your Wrangler. First consultation is usually free. Good luck.

I've had an attorney. Basically in my state (Maryland) the arbitrator cannot award attorney fees. So, if I go the arbitration route I will be doing it on my own. If I go the litigation route, I would be represented by the attorney.

 

[Woodbridge]

I was given 2 options today since FCA is refusing a buyback.

I can either try Arbitration or go directly to litigation / trial.

Has anyone so far had to make this decision? If you can't post publicly, please PM me. Looking for opinions.

Go to trial!!! Don't waste your time with arbitration.

 

[madscientist]

I was given 2 options today since FCA is refusing a buyback.

I can either try Arbitration or go directly to litigation / trial.

Has anyone so far had to make this decision? If you can't post publicly, please PM me. Looking for opinions.

What is the problem with the vehicle and what requirement can you prove has not been met? Note that going to trial will put the burden of proof on you. If you cannot prove that there is a irreparable issue (design or manufacturing-related), then you do not have a case and will have wasted your time and money.

Arbitration, on the other hand, is a negotiation with the purpose to gain agreement on how to satisfy your needs. You can always move forward to a trial if arbitration doesn't work. But you cannot go back to arbitration if you lose at trial.

The secret here is to make the claim black-and-white. Here is the requirement (cite FCA specs, US regs, statutory req's, etc) and here is how the product fails to meet the requirement.

Also note that lemon laws require you to allow FCA the opportunity to mitigate the problems. So if FCA is saying they will try to fix it, then you need to let them try. However, after a certain point (e.g. 3 repair attempts) you no longer need to put up with fruitless efforts.

Good luck!

 

[KnG818]

I was given 2 options today since FCA is refusing a buyback.

I can either try Arbitration or go directly to litigation / trial.

Has anyone so far had to make this decision? If you can't post publicly, please PM me. Looking for opinions.

What is the issue with your jeep?

Can you offer more details as to why fca wont offer a buyback.

For example: if your asking for a full buy back because of the stabilizer then I understand the fca(not saying you are).

The root cause/issue your claiming means everything when trying to determine your next step.

 

[Apoznan]

@madscientist
"Arbitration, on the other hand, is a negotiation with the purpose to gain agreement on how to satisfy your needs. You can always move forward to a trial if arbitration doesn't work. But you cannot go back to arbitration if you lose at trial."

Are you sure about this? In my area of the legal field arbitration has someone decide the issues and be binding. It is like a mini trial without a jury. To me, you are describing mediation. But again, my area of law isn't lemon law cases.

 

[Apoznan]

@madscientist
"Arbitration, on the other hand, is a negotiation with the purpose to gain agreement on how to satisfy your needs. You can always move forward to a trial if arbitration doesn't work. But you cannot go back to arbitration if you lose at trial."

Are you sure about this? In my area of the legal field arbitration has someone decide the issues and be binding. It is like a mini trial without a jury. To me, you are describing mediation. But again, my area of law isn't lemon law cases.

Yep, quoting myself. I took a quick look in the Google machine, and it seems that this varies by state. So before you make any decisions, check if your State has binding arbitration, or the right to sue following arbitration.

Best bet would be to go get a free legal consultation either way.

 

[Squibbles]

I think I’d compare projected legal fees versus what I’d lose on a trade in. I had a lemon case for Honda and they wouldn’t work with me. I traded in my Honda because it was a considerably smaller loss than hiring a lawyer. At the same time my father’s F150 head and rods were destroyed because of faulty fuel injectors, it had 110k miles on it and he was the second owner. Ford paid for a new head and rotating assembly because it was a known issue with the part number. Do you want another wrangler or are you trying to get into something else? Trading in at a Jeep dealer you’ll lose less than other dealerships but iconic cars are easy for any dealership to sell.

 

[Wolfff]

I was given 2 options today since FCA is refusing a buyback.

I can either try Arbitration or go directly to litigation / trial.

Has anyone so far had to make this decision? If you can't post publicly, please PM me. Looking for opinions.

My experience is NOT to do arbitration. Go the legal route straight away.

Reasons:
1.) I did arbitration for my 2019 JLU bought in 3/19 because of 2 inch of steering play and because Jeep told me "to live if it, there is nothing they can do" after 35 days in workshop. They agreed that it drives like a 50 year old panel van with worn out steering but it is not worse compared to other JLU's on the lot.
2.) I lost arbitration since in FCA eyes I could not demonstrate one of the three things:
a.) loss in value,
b.) safety issue
c.) limitation of use

Arbitration result:
Value:
There is no limitation of value since there is nothing wrong with the JLU !!!!!!
Safety:
Since I had no accidents ( and I am still alive) the vehicle is safe. Despite the fact that my JLU can not be driven in a straight line since the steering play is forcing the driver to continuously to correct.
Use:
I drove 10800 mls up to the date of arbitration and this is more than average. Therefore there is no limitation of use.

The NCDS arbitrator was an arrogant guy who just followed FCA's lawyers line. I feel this process is pretty rigged towards the car manufacturers. Nobody cared that I had to take my lift out and make my JLU stock to even have a chance in arbitration. And even then the FCA lawyer argumented that the previous (Non Mopar) lift might have damaged the vehicle in a way and that I was responsible for the steering issue.

An additional issue with arbitration came up two days ago and this issue is very concerning. Since the arbitrator and FCA found that there is nothing wrong and 2 inches of steering play is normal, the regional Jeep manager instructed my dealer not to entertain any steering related warranty work on my JLU since there are " Things are going on with this Jeep and its owner" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Background:
After the arbitration decision I switched the dealerships. They took the JLU in and told me that they are not sure if Jeep with pay for the rental car. but they gave me a rental car. The dealership the first time did a good job and consulted a FCA engineer. This engineer found the steering gear to be defective and to be replaced additionally they found tool marks on the steering gear. At this time the regional FCA manager got involved. She shut down the hole repair process and they charged me 5 days of car rental. I made the mistake to try to adjust the steering gear adjustment screw by an 1/8. It improved the steering a little bit but not much. Therefore I put it back to spec after a test drive. Unfortunately my desperate search for a solution to the steering problem backfired badly.


Lessons learned:
1.) If you deal with a problem which has no official FCA solution , take a lawyer,
2) If you have a problem which is not fixed by FCA DO NOT USE the vehicle! Drop it off at FCA dealerships and request rental cars. Have your safety concerns stated in the repair request. If the vehicle is not fixed after a repair bring it back immediately and request a rental car. If the do not give you a rental car anymore, get a lawyer and pay for the rental yourself. Do not be nice to the the dealer. Nobody in the dealership is going to hug you after you lost an arbitration case!
3.) Warranty is not worth a thing if it is denied.
4.) Do not buy a new FCA vehicle and do not buy a model which is not at least 3 years in the market. FCA seem to have a big issue with their suppliers and quality control and is solving their issues on the back of their customers.
5) This is the last FCA vehicle I will have bought new.
6.) I spent so far about 200 hours and $2000 fighting FCA with the result that I am on my own. Now I have to spent another $1500 to replace the steering gear.
7.) Do not think of burning your car, taking a hammer to it in front of TV cameras and the dealership. Do not run it of the road or against a tree. I thought already of all of it. Take a lawyer.

 

[Goin2drt]

There is an option no one is mentioning.

Save time, money, frustration and just go buy the PSC steering kit, spend the $3k that you are already spending and getting no where. Drop off your rig and pick it up the next day driving perfectly and like it should. Continue to enjoy the Jeep and be on your merry way.

You already bought the Jeep. You have choices now.

 

[jimmydarnell]

My experience is NOT to do arbitration. Go the legal route straight away.

Reasons:
1.) I did arbitration for my 2019 JLU bought in 3/19 because of 2 inch of steering play and because Jeep told me "to live if it, there is nothing they can do" after 35 days in workshop. They agreed that it drives like a 50 year old panel van with worn out steering but it is not worse compared to other JLU's on the lot.
2.) I lost arbitration since in FCA eyes I could not demonstrate one of the three things:
a.) loss in value,
b.) safety issue
c.) limitation of use

Arbitration result:
Value:
There is no limitation of value since there is nothing wrong with the JLU !!!!!!
Safety:
Since I had no accidents ( and I am still alive) the vehicle is safe. Despite the fact that my JLU can not be driven in a straight line since the steering play is forcing the driver to continuously to correct.
Use:
I drove 10800 mls up to the date of arbitration and this is more than average. Therefore there is no limitation of use.

The NCDS arbitrator was an arrogant guy who just followed FCA's lawyers line. I feel this process is pretty rigged towards the car manufacturers. Nobody cared that I had to take my lift out and make my JLU stock to even have a chance in arbitration. And even then the FCA lawyer argumented that the previous (Non Mopar) lift might have damaged the vehicle in a way and that I was responsible for the steering issue.

An additional issue with arbitration came up two days ago and this issue is very concerning. Since the arbitrator and FCA found that there is nothing wrong and 2 inches of steering play is normal, the regional Jeep manager instructed my dealer not to entertain any steering related warranty work on my JLU since there are " Things are going on with this Jeep and its owner" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Background:
After the arbitration decision I switched the dealerships. They took the JLU in and told me that they are not sure if Jeep with pay for the rental car. but they gave me a rental car. The dealership the first time did a good job and consulted a FCA engineer. This engineer found the steering gear to be defective and to be replaced additionally they found tool marks on the steering gear. At this time the regional FCA manager got involved. She shut down the hole repair process and they charged me 5 days of car rental. I made the mistake to try to adjust the steering gear adjustment screw by an 1/8. It improved the steering a little bit but not much. Therefore I put it back to spec after a test drive. Unfortunately my desperate search for a solution to the steering problem backfired badly.


Lessons learned:
1.) If you deal with a problem which has no official FCA solution , take a lawyer,
2) If you have a problem which is not fixed by FCA DO NOT USE the vehicle! Drop it off at FCA dealerships and request rental cars. Have your safety concerns stated in the repair request. If the vehicle is not fixed after a repair bring it back immediately and request a rental car. If the do not give you a rental car anymore, get a lawyer and pay for the rental yourself. Do not be nice to the the dealer. Nobody in the dealership is going to hug you after you lost an arbitration case!
3.) Warranty is not worth a thing if it is denied.
4.) Do not buy a new FCA vehicle and do not buy a model which is not at least 3 years in the market. FCA seem to have a big issue with their suppliers and quality control and is solving their issues on the back of their customers.
5) This is the last FCA vehicle I will have bought new.
6.) I spent so far about 200 hours and $2000 fighting FCA with the result that I am on my own. Now I have to spent another $1500 to replace the steering gear.
7.) Do not think of burning your car, taking a hammer to it in front of TV cameras and the dealership. Do not run it of the road or against a tree. I thought already of all of it. Take a lawyer.

Hi, Im currently working with a lady from the below. I assumed it was an arbitrator since I filed the case with my state and sent the request to FCA then she called offering a swap out of like kind to my current Jeep. But after reading what you have gone through it sounds like this may actually be a company hired by FCA to help deal with their issues before it gets to the arbitration path. My thought was to be pushy in getting what I want but seems I may need to be a little flexible to not have to go through your heartache.

Automotive Services
www.stericycleexpertsolutions.com

 

[viper88]

Lemon Laws are different for every State. OP needs to consult with a lawyer in the State they bought from to get accurate information on how to proceed. Hopefully the State they bought from allows for attorney fees to be recouped. Good Luck to the OP.

 

[glang1992]

OP here.

I have had an attorney since the 3rd time the vehicle went into the dealership. I have 6 repair orders and 34 total days out of service. To make things worse, the dealership actually damaged the front busing linkage on the steering arm in the process of one of the repairs and had to replace that at their cost.

You would think after 6 work orders and 34 days out of service that FCA would have offered a buyback. But, they go so hard back and forth of, “driving as designed” and throwing parts at the car to try to “resolve” the issue. I waited about 8 weeks or so for FCA to get back to my attorney about the buyback which they are refusing to do. They offered a cash settlement, but it’s not enough to recover my losses.

The attorney advised me to go to the new car sales as if I was going to trade in the vehicle. They offered $30,000 for trade and my payoff is $37,500 (I have only had it since 5/22/2018). It’s also not enough to cover the cost of the after market “fixes.” And I am NOT taking a loss on their mistakes.

The attorney works on a contingency basis. Therefore, I haven’t paid anything so far.

In my state (Maryland) the arbitrator is not able to award attorney fees. The attorney wouldn’t be assisting me with the arbitration because there would be no way for them to get paid. Which I completely understand and don’t expect anyone to work for free because I certainly don’t. After dealing with all of this since mid June, I don’t think I could mentally handle the additional stresses of going through arbitration on my own. And in the end to just have them refuse a buyback and still have to wait for a trial date.

So, we are officially heading to trial at this point and I have a feeling that these next few months are going to be a nightmare.

 

[KnG818]

OP here.

I have had an attorney since the 3rd time the vehicle went into the dealership. I have 6 repair orders and 34 total days out of service. To make things worse, the dealership actually damaged the front busing linkage on the steering arm in the process of one of the repairs and had to replace that at their cost.

You would think after 6 work orders and 34 days out of service that FCA would have offered a buyback. But, they go so hard back and forth of, “driving as designed” and throwing parts at the car to try to “resolve” the issue. I waited about 8 weeks or so for FCA to get back to my attorney about the buyback which they are refusing to do. They offered a cash settlement, but it’s not enough to recover my losses.

The attorney advised me to go to the new car sales as if I was going to trade in the vehicle. They offered $30,000 for trade and my payoff is $37,500 (I have only had it since 5/22/2018). It’s also not enough to cover the cost of the after market “fixes.” And I am NOT taking a loss on their mistakes.

The attorney works on a contingency basis. Therefore, I haven’t paid anything so far.

In my state (Maryland) the arbitrator is not able to award attorney fees. The attorney wouldn’t be assisting me with the arbitration because there would be no way for them to get paid. Which I completely understand and don’t expect anyone to work for free because I certainly don’t. After dealing with all of this since mid June, I don’t think I could mentally handle the additional stresses of going through arbitration on my own. And in the end to just have them refuse a buyback and still have to wait for a trial date.

So, we are officially heading to trial at this point and I have a feeling that these next few months are going to be a nightmare.

What is your issue with the Jeep?

My jeep was in shop more than 4 times for warranty issues...it sucks totally agree, but it's just a reality.

Basically, why do you think a full buyback is justified for the issues your having? I understand time and the nuessance of....but what is the problem your having with the Jeep?

....I have a funny feeling I know what your issue is.

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