Ramcharger type Wrangler Next Gen ?

[ecomguy]

Think of all the compromises that are made in an ICE to provide a smooth, powerful torque curve from a bit over idle all the way to redline. Those compromises go away when that ICE is designed to operate at one specific RPM (not RPM range, a specific RPM) that it is most efficient at. Have you seen how complex variable valve timing can get? Crap like that all goes away when compromises related to engine speeds are no longer in the mix.

Depending on how many motors are involved, there are a crapload of existing parts that potentially go away.

No need for a transmission. Or a transfer case. Or drive shafts. Or axles. Or differentials. Or lockers.

In that scenario, however, we wouldn't have a solid front axle, which would suck from an articulation standpoint.

There are a lot of paths Jeep can go down in an EV setup. Single-motor dropped into a standard transfer case setup, quad motor; Heck, Jeep could adopt solid axles with motors direct driving front and rear differentials, bypassing a transfer case, but still providing articulation.

Jeep just has to keep its eye on the ball for what the wrangler is… fun, open-air, and capable offroad.

IMO the most exciting “fun” EV on the horizon is the Meyers Manx 2.0. Classic styling, purity of purpose, and an EV powertrain without whizzbangery.

https://meyersmanx.com/products/manx-2-0-ev-launch-edition-deposit

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[Tncdrew]

There are a lot of paths Jeep can go down in an EV setup. Single-motor dropped into a standard transfer case setup, quad motor; Heck, Jeep could adopt solid axles with motors direct driving front and rear differentials, bypassing a transfer case, but still providing articulation.

Jeep just has to keep its eye on the ball for what the wrangler is… fun, open-air, and capable offroad.

IMO the most exciting “fun” EV on the horizon is the Meyers Manx 2.0. Classic styling, purity of purpose, and an EV powertrain without whizzbangery.

https://meyersmanx.com/products/manx-2-0-ev-launch-edition-deposit

All for the low (starting) price of $125,000!
For only $1000, you too can get into this ponzi scheme.

 

[OrneryBear]

There are a lot of paths Jeep can go down in an EV setup. Single-motor dropped into a standard transfer case setup, quad motor; Heck, Jeep could adopt solid axles with motors direct driving front and rear differentials, bypassing a transfer case, but still providing articulation.

Jeep just has to keep its eye on the ball for what the wrangler is… fun, open-air, and capable offroad.

IMO the most exciting “fun” EV on the horizon is the Meyers Manx 2.0. Classic styling, purity of purpose, and an EV powertrain without whizzbangery.

https://meyersmanx.com/products/manx-2-0-ev-launch-edition-deposit

My thoughts are you could do hub motors at each wheel. gives direct drive control to each individual wheel, and would allow you to keep solid axles but no need for a pumpkin to get hung up or axles shafts to break. No more fluid to worry about. Your drive components are easily accessible. Put the battery where the transmission used to be. Put in a small efficient ICE engine for a generator. I think any gears or rotating assemblies that can be removed would greatly help simplify the vehicle.

Personally I think it sounds like a great equation.

 

[ecomguy]

Hey, it’s a low production vehicle

All for the low (starting) price of $125,000!
For only $1000, you too can get into this ponzi scheme.

The pricing is totally out there, agreed… I see it as an American version of a Morgan, a super low production boutique product.

 

[258_T18A]

I don't know....
Take all the complexity of an ICE vehicle, and combine it with all the complexity of an EV

This is a valid criticism of Series-Parallel hybrids like the 4xe but not pure Series hybrids like the REPB.

 

[_olllllllo_]

Think of all the compromises that are made in an ICE to provide a smooth, powerful torque curve from a bit over idle all the way to redline. Those compromises go away when that ICE is designed to operate at one specific RPM (not RPM range, a specific RPM) that it is most efficient at. Have you seen how complex variable valve timing can get? Crap like that all goes away when compromises related to engine speeds are no longer in the mix.

Depending on how many motors are involved, there are a crapload of existing parts that potentially go away.

No need for a transmission. Or a transfer case. Or drive shafts. Or axles. Or differentials. Or lockers.

In that scenario, however, we wouldn't have a solid front axle, which would suck from an articulation standpoint.

Go look at a CyberTruck on an RTI ramp, not a great example since it has less articulation that some golf carts, and other EV makers have done a better job. The big loss for me, besides the solid axles, would be the mechanical advantage offered by a transmission.

Personally I am looking forward to the advancement of solid state batteries and hope that in 5 years time they are 30% the weight of current cell-based solutions, while holding more charge and having the ability to charge faster. Drop the 3.6 V6 and replace it with an electric motor. Drop the fuel tank and replace it with a solid state battery. Keep my manual transmission and Jeep 4-wheel drive system. It wouldn't be the most efficient system, but I could do the installation in my garage. The electronic controls would be far simpler as the motor would be controlled by a rheostat based on throttle position. This is very similar to the Magneto 1 and 2 concepts Jeep showed at EJS in the past.

 

[Ratbert]

My thoughts are you could do hub motors at each wheel. gives direct drive control to each individual wheel, and would allow you to keep solid axles but no need for a pumpkin to get hung up or axles shafts to break.

I was thinking the same thing, but wouldn't the hit to unsprung weight be a killer?

 

[Ratbert]

The big loss for me, besides the solid axles, would be the mechanical advantage offered by a transmission.

Isn't that mechanical advantage only there to increase torque? Would that still be required if we (like the Ramcharger) had in the neighborhood of 600 lb-ft of torque, all available from 0 RPM?

 

[OrneryBear]

I was thinking the same thing, but wouldn't the hit to unsprung weight be a killer?

Well I would say you are at least dropping weight off the axle by removing the diff and the heavy cast housing at least. Im going to plead ignorance but whats the disadvantage of unsprung weight in off roading? At least a lot of sprung weight gets dropped in this scenario. Before getting into trucks and off roading I was far more into road racing and in that world the unsprung weight was better.

 

[Ratbert]

Well I would say you are at least dropping weight off the axle by removing the diff and the heavy cast housing at least. Im going to plead ignorance but whats the disadvantage of unsprung weight in off roading? At least a lot of sprung weight gets dropped in this scenario. Before getting into trucks and off roading I was far more into road racing and in that world the unsprung weight was better.

AFAIK, unsprung weight isn't a significant concern for low-speed rock crawling, but think about the implications of the weight of an engine on each wheel as you're traveling down a washboard road at 30 mph.

 

[OrneryBear]

AFAIK, unsprung weight isn't a significant concern for low-speed rock crawling, but think about the implications of the weight of an engine on each wheel as you're traveling down a washboard road at 30 mph.

Yaaaa ok that does make sense from that standpoint. Maybe the solution is some sort of center axle motor then. Replaces the diff but still drives axle shafts. @Ratbert you and I might be the only people on this forums consistently excited about this idea

 

[Ratbert]

Yaaaa ok that does make sense from that standpoint. Maybe the solution is some sort of center axle motor then. Replaces the diff but still drives axle shafts. @Ratbert you and I might be the only people on this forums consistently excited about this idea

At least we're being realistic about it and discussing the negatives along with the positives.

 

[OrneryBear]

At least we're being realistic about it and discussing the negatives along with the positives.

I like living in reality. There are pros and cons to everything

 

[Tncdrew]

This is a valid criticism of Series-Parallel hybrids like the 4xe but not pure Series hybrids like the REPB.

I don't see the real world difference, but it's all good

 

[258_T18A]

I don't see the real world difference, but it's all good

EVs are significantly less complicated than ICE vehicles.

REPB is just an EV with a gas powered generator bolted on to charge the battery.

Traditional series-parallel hybrid like 4xe is a total Rube Goldberg contraption as you have two complete drivetrains in one vehicle.

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