One more reason auto is vastly superior to stick in crawling

[Industrialwrench]

Double LOL. My assertion is almost anyone using a spotter can wheel through a difficult line with a spotter. Your wife does it on an easy high centered spot, therefore anyone can do any line with a MT. What about all the other MT folks saying it's operators error, driver needed more skill? You're saying it takes no more skill with a MT through a difficult crawl? What about my 14 y.o. nephew that's never driven a stick. I've spotted for him several times. You comfortable having him drive your MT?

annoying as hell experts such as [Banned Site] stalls – Just stalled on this obstacle which happens a lot when you’re wheeling a stick.

Still think anyone can wheel with a MT?

How about Stalling on The Wall, Poughkeepsie Gulch, Colorado

Can your 14 y.o. nephew do that without smoking the clutch.

The 14 y.o.. did much of the following rock climb with me, the super slow spotter. Multiple stops, start, turn, back up.

Pic is about the middle, coming back from the end. You going to let the passenger of another rig run this route?

How about this?

#3 your completely wrong

Agreed, deleted.

4 is just stupid…

Here's 4: Towing a trailer, backing over curbs, pulling over obstacles.

Guess you've never taken a trailer where you need to nudge it over a big curb or some other obstacle. Far easier with torque multiplication of torque converter. You can't bump it. Reverse idle speed is too fast. Now it's not just the weight of the JL, it's the trailer too.



LOL again. Never said anything about pulling a trailer. Let's see you back up a heavy trailer, front wheels turned, over a large curb or other obstacle in reverse. I've done in routinely over the years with an automatic. Easier when I had front hubs that weren't engaged. With an auto, on pavement, wheels turned, I back over curbs in 2 Hi. You going to do that in 2 Hi with a MT?

Yes my 14 year old daughter is learning to do all that now…Sure she’s stalled it, like 40 times learning how(my clutch still works great).
yeah my wife jumped in my manual vehicle when I got it stuck and drove it without a problem. She was a little jittery from the experience, but rad. You didn’t see where I put it, or what I did to get it out. Lol I had a lot of people cheering at the playground…She’s owned multiple manuals too, but never driven off-road. I don’t understand why you have an issue doing all the things you’re saying. But I have a feeling most people buying a stick don’t. I never said anyone can wheel in a stick. “Most” people can’t even leave a parking space. I will say that those that do, do so for a reason that won’t be surpassed by the convenience of a computer. Enjoy your auto. I’ll enjoy my manual.

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[J0E]

Yes my 14 year old daughter is learning to do all that now…Sure she’s stalled it, like 40 times learning how(my clutch still works great).
yeah my wife jumped in my manual vehicle when I got it stuck and drove it without a problem. She was a little jittery from the experience, but rad. You didn’t see where I put it, or what I did to get it out. Lol I had a lot of people cheering at the playground…She’s owned multiple manuals too, but never driven off-road. I don’t understand why you have an issue doing all the things you’re saying. But I have a feeling most people buying a stick don’t. I never said anyone can wheel in a stick. “Most” people can’t even leave a parking space. I will say that those that do, do so for a reason that won’t be surpassed by the convenience of a computer. Enjoy your auto. I’ll enjoy my manual.

…Sure she’s stalled it, like 40 times learning how(my clutch still works great).

Use the trick I posted previously. My Dad taught me to drive a stick when I was 10 y.o. He put it in low range. When I let out the clutch too fast it lurched, but didn't die. The 2nd attempt is much faster, you don't have to start the engine. 2nd attempt less of a lurch, but still too fast. By the 5 or 8th time, he put it in hi range. I've used that trick on many nieces & nephews.

This thread started with coming out of a difficult area in 2 Hi, that's the biggest AT advantage.

 

[Gossamer]

The "sin" of stalling is more of a concern when you're sitting at 25 degrees off camber and 20 degrees pointed up the obstacle. It's not very fun to stall in the situation. That's more of what we are really talking about here (at least I am).

Lol, I think EVERY SINGLE PERSON who has been in this situation with a manual transmission has stalled at one time or another. Restart and try again. But, I'm sure in 2hi, in a auto, same situation is a really FUN situation. Also, just how much of this situation are you doing with the auto in 2hi? That's a lot of heat building up, might need to shut 'er down and cool down, you know, since we're making up scenarios.

 

[Gossamer]

Where the heck R U mall crawling that you regularly back over curbs with a trailer? I can't think of a single time in 35 years of towing I couldn't get out of a situation AROUND the curbs. 20 foot flatbed with a full size pickup, for reference.

 

[mgroeger]

Lol, I think EVERY SINGLE PERSON who has been in this situation with a manual transmission has stalled at one time or another. Restart and try again. But, I'm sure in 2hi, in a auto, same situation is a really FUN situation. Also, just how much of this situation are you doing with the auto in 2hi? That's a lot of heat building up, might need to shut 'er down and cool down, you know, since we're making up scenarios.

Good one, you had me there for a second. 2HI... lol.

 

[J0E]

Where the heck R U mall crawling that you regularly back over curbs with a trailer? I can't think of a single time in 35 years of towing I couldn't get out of a situation AROUND the curbs. 20 foot flatbed with a full size pickup, for reference.

You don't get out enough I suppose. I'd say a couple times a year I need to back over obstacles.

Lol, I think EVERY SINGLE PERSON who has been in this situation with a manual transmission has stalled at one time or another. Restart and try again. But, I'm sure in 2hi, in a auto, same situation is a really FUN situation. Also, just how much of this situation are you doing with the auto in 2hi? That's a lot of heat building up, might need to shut 'er down and cool down, you know, since we're making up scenarios.

Did you read the beginning of the thread? Broken front axle u-joint. Yes auto is going to get out, but it won't be smoking and it will get you out without a bunch of cool down stops. Obviously you didn't read the start of this thread, it happened.

 

[J0E]

AT advantage is back to 4. You don't need to regear when you get bigger tires.

 

[RudeJeepin]

I can’t think of a single situation where the manual has an advantage over the auto. I mean after all you can put the auto into a manual mode. What am I missing?

I can think of a few times snow wheeling where I'd liked to of had my old manual trans back. But in general, the modern auto is pretty hard to beat.
This 8spd is nice, but damn the 10spd auto behind the Duramax I had was even better.

 

[Punknhed]

this thread is highly entertaining on a saturday morning lol. I like a lot of people in this thread learned to drive on a manual, and love them. Every vehicle I have owned since learning to drive has been a stick except one, up until recently. I had a cobalt 5 spd as my beater back n forth to work. Sold my 05GTO mt to buy my Wrangler w a 6 speed. Never in my life have I stalled so many times, this happening in northern Va traffic. I have driven my jeep on the beach, and some of the trails here in va. Quite honestly I have grown tired of the clutch in my jeep, so much so that I have ordered a new jeep with an auto. Sadly my cobalt died in a car accident last year, i tried to find another one with a stick but couldnt as quickly as I needed a vehicle. I am actually looking forward to having an auto in my new jeep. That said, hopefully when its paid off i can buy another sporty car, and it will have a stick for the simple reason i love to shift gears. Someone above mentioned the new corvette, yes the new auto is incredibly quick shifting and faster then a human can shift. However, my friend that has one, and he loves it, loves his C7 Z06 7spd more. Why? simple , its just more fun to shift gears

one other thing, to all those that say regear and new clutch, i was hoping the new centerforce would fix the issues of the stock clutch but it seems people are STILL having issues with the new centerforce ie not shifting properly etc. so i really dont feel like blowing a bunch of money for something thats not a guaranteed fix.

 

[jeepoch]

@Punknhed,

Chris,

So many people are blind to the 'AutoStick' feature on these ZF8 tranny's. You can row all 8 gears both up and down all you want. Hell, never put it in 'D' at all.

However I don't know why you wouldn't, the acceleration shift points are way better than I can generally accomplish. They are smooth and almost imperceptible. In all honesty, I much more enjoy downshifting. But don't get me wrong, charging off the line anywhere that requires a real aggressive take-off, count me in every time. Regardless, the real fun factor for me is that I can (manually) shift whenever I want, but never just because 'I have to'.

When off-road, especially in 4Lo, the 'D' position is seldom, if rarely used. I like to explicitly control the gear selection. I find that while the shift points are indeed inexplicably smooth and effortless on the road, it's downright difficult if not impossible to properly predict and calibrate shift points almost anywhere on trail. Especially on steep grades or difficult terrain.

So the attractiveness of having the best of both worlds (to me) is priceless.

I too have driven manuals nearly my entire adult life. From, sleek and sexy sports cars to both large and small pickups. I've also had the hockey team hauling mini-van with the most ordinarily boring automatic transmission imaginable. And given those two choices, I'd choose a MT every time and twice on Sundays.

Yet, after owning this JL Sport 2 door 3.6L, 8-speed auto, there is no looking back. MT's are now but a distant memory. At least the left foot calisthenics are. I frequently, routinely, and enthusiastically still row through as many gears as I wish, to enjoy driving to it's fullest. Just no more stalling, pumping or needing to ride the clutch (ever).

While I totally understand why some people will never want to part ways with the third pedal, having such unencumbered luxury of never again needing to clutch, and yet still having all the underlying gear selection with this ZF8 is just something that keeps me scratching my head. Especially in light of all the inherent design and implementation flaws that this JL clutch on the MT6 produces. Hope you enjoy (or at least tolerate) the software 'fix' of reduced torque output as your clutch heats up. Yuck, but I digress, that's another story...

Or maybe it's just the engineering nerd in me that really appreciates the technological advances in powertrain management, which is likely biasing my perspective. Perhaps by having developed Engine Controller software and calibrating this functionality earlier in my career has somehow clouded my overall judgement.

Nah, I'm still having a blast either manually rowing the gears, or letting the code do the work. It's all good.

Enjoy what float's your boat, or rocks your Jeep. Only you alone can determine your own fun factor. For me I wouldn't trade this ZF8 tranny in my JL for anything. Really. It's a fribben blast!!!

Kind regards.
Jay

 

[wibornz]

I have the ten speed automatic in my Camaro SS convertible. It is a blast to put it into manual mode and use the paddle shifters. The auto function is way faster than me. When I whip on it in manual mode, and go WOT from a launch, the 6.2 liter motor revvs so fast it is hard to keep it odd the rev limiter. In auto mode, it is way faster.

The cool thing is if you are on the roll, I can put it in track mode, down shift it and hold the gear in prep to go WOT.

 

[Punknhed]

i get it, yes the new autos are incredible, and fast and all that. However i still love to drive a manual. Just not in the Jeep. I will have another stick at some point and i wont care how fast the auto is, because i dont track my stuff. I know to many good mountain roads in va to go play on. within the limits of the law of course lol

 

[word302]

I don’t understand how anyone struggles with this clutch. Sure it’s a bit different and I stalled it a time or two the first month, but once you’re used to it it’s just another clutch. It drives great before and after my regear.

 

[Dyolfknip74]

Ok, I have the litmus test for AT vs MT.
Let's set the tone.

It's hot AF outside. You're wife is gonna lose her mind if you are longer than 30 minutes working on the jeep, cause you're supposed to take her out for dinner.

You need to run a wire harness to add a light bar to your colour matched Hi Lift on the driver's side from engine compartment to footwell and you can't drill at all.

AT wins. 100% of the time. AT is obviously superior. MT? Ya, her boyfriend is taking her out to dinner, not you.


/End thread



As an aside, while I own an auto, I much prefer driving a MT vehicle. For instance. My Focus RS was MT because, well, it was awesome. Lol. They're just more fun to drive the majority of the time for me. We got an auto for the Jeep my spouse never drives because she can't drive a stick. Lol.

 

[MrMischief]

The longer this thread goes on the more I realize that OP and others like him are why so many JKs burned down after overheating their transmission. I suspect in their story of the JL coming out of a "difficult" trail in 2hi because reasons that the transmission is in worse shape than he realizes due to burnt ATF. The JL manual has issues with heat as well, but an automatic is not immune from heat issues including smoked clutches.

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