Will the BEV J70 be scrapped?

[Zandcwhite]

Like you yourself stated the Jeep mild hybrid eTorque have zero gain for a lot of complexity, it's a joke masquerading as a hybrid, and people that know steered clear of it, Jeep forced it on people with the way they configure the packages. They removed it from the 2.0T for no reason when the 4xe came out, probably because it would have cost more than the 4xe, and that is before tax payers subsidies

But I hope you not trying to compare that eTorque con game to the various Toyota hybrid systems

If you are talking about the 4xe selling better than the eTorque, it's because the Wrangler 4xe actually have value, coupled with the government subsidies and massive discounts, Stellantis is giving away PHEVs for cheap because of their fleet CO2 emissions, it's either they do that, or pay Tesla even more for carbon credits, or pay thousands per vehicle in penalties, they are giving away the hornet PHEV and people are running in the other direction.

Bottomline is you still don't understand the basic difference between a HEV and a complex PHEV, you still think a HEV is a PHEV without a charger and big battery, when it is not, you keep talking about a big electric motor is better than a "less effective" motor, not understanding the purpose for the electric motor choices in a HEV vs PHEV.

A PHEV generally have limited benefits when it comes to something like a Prius or RAV4, and, you yourself do not charge your Prius because there is no benefit when it get amazing mpg.

Generally people buying a Prius is about MPG, not a powerful package to race Civics at the red lights.

In simple terms PHEV is mainly to facilitate all electric driving, if you don't care for that, or complexity or expensive repairs, steer clear of PHEVs.

You still don't understand you're flat wrong. There are a few vehicles offered as both HEV and PHEV. The difference? Is not efficiency or complexity is a charger, a larger battery, and a more powerful electric motor period. Cross comparing how Toyota does HEV in a Tacoma vs how Jeep does it in a PHEV is far from a direct comparison. Etorque proves that Jeep wouldn't make it less complex, they'd drop the charger and make the battery and electric motor smaller period.... just like Kia and Toyota do in the actually comparable HEV and PHEV models. The rest of it is just assumptions you made. The prius and niro both disproves your original premise of HEVs are for efficiency and PHEVs are intended to replace fuel sources without the efficiency. The Toyota 4x4s further disprove that idea as they are clearly not efficient and the electric motor is there to add power period. Now you're making up a new set of differences that direct pan out either. And yet you still want to argue it's an HEV vs PHEV set of parameters. Generalizations and false statements period.

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[Ron Texas]

We have 2 3.6L powered Jeeps in the driveway. Aside from the smoother so starts the rest of what you claim isn't even noticeable driving the 2 back to back. Shifts are no smoother, there definitely is no extra oomph on take offs. 0-60 is the same. It's placebo effect at best if you think it's game changing. The fact that it doesn't improve mpg in the slightest, even in city driving, prices is not doing much. The 4xe has extra oomph and the much improved 0-60 to prove it. Etorque does so little it can't be measured...impressive.

I disagree with each and every statement you make. What you call claims are facts. I won't bother to reply to you in the future. I find your opinions to be a strong reason to avoid Internet forums unless I need an answer to a specific question.

 

[Zandcwhite]

I disagree with each and every statement you make. What you call claims are facts. I won't bother to reply to you in the future. I find your opinions to be a strong reason to avoid Internet forums unless I need an answer to a specific question.

Have you actually driven both back to back? Similar gearing etc? Because I have for years. Not just a test drive. Not a sport vs a Rubicon where I'm attributing the difference in gearing to the etorque actually doing something. The fact is there's no measurable difference in acceleration or mpg, so how could any of your claims be real? Extra oomph but it's not quicker? Makes sense.

 

[BXFXJeep]

You still don't understand you're flat wrong. There are a few vehicles offered as both HEV and PHEV. The difference? Is not efficiency or complexity is a charger, a larger battery, and a more powerful electric motor period. Cross comparing how Toyota does HEV in a Tacoma vs how Jeep does it in a PHEV is far from a direct comparison. Etorque proves that Jeep wouldn't make it less complex, they'd drop the charger and make the battery and electric motor smaller period.... just like Kia and Toyota do in the actually comparable HEV and PHEV models. The rest of it is just assumptions you made. The prius and niro both disproves your original premise of HEVs are for efficiency and PHEVs are intended to replace fuel sources without the efficiency. The Toyota 4x4s further disprove that idea as they are clearly not efficient and the electric motor is there to add power period. Now you're making up a new set of differences that direct pan out either. And yet you still want to argue it's an HEV vs PHEV set of parameters. Generalizations and false statements period.

You do realize that the eTorque isn't really a HEV, it has almost no benefit for it's complexity, and expensive repairs, EPA reported it had worse mpg than the regular 2.0T.

HEVs tend to have some benefits, mpg gains, maybe power, well unless when it's a Jeep HEV

Jeep was smart enough to slap Mild in front of Hybrid to minimize ridicule.

It looks as if Jeep used it to experiment if their PHEV design would work in the real world, then moved it to the 3.6 Wrangler, possibly to experiment for a PHEV 3.6 for the Gladiator.

At the time the 2.0T eTorque was discounted to zero out the upcharge, now we know why, the discounts made a bit cheaper than the 3.6 ESS, I went with the 3.6 instead.

 

[Ratbert]

I disagree with each and every statement you make. What you call claims are facts. I won't bother to reply to you in the future. I find your opinions to be a strong reason to avoid Internet forums unless I need an answer to a specific question.

@Zandcwhite's response, which was based on a significant amount of A / B comparative analysis, differed from what you're predisposed to believe, therefore you're closing your eyes and explicitly ignoring his conclusions?

That's, uhh, shall we say, uhh, "interesting".

 

[Zandcwhite]

@Zandcwhite's response, which was based on a significant amount of A / B comparative analysis, differed from what you're predisposed to believe, therefore you're closing your eyes and explicitly ignoring his conclusions?

That's, uhh, shall we say, uhh, "interesting".

Some people just want the internet to be an echo chamber of their own beliefs and opinions. I'm sure I'm on a lot of those people's ignore list. I prefer facts, real world experiences, evidence, and have no problem admitting I'm wrong if you can provide evidence of such. To me that's what's great about forums, we can all learn from the experiences of others. Even there it should be taken with a grain of salt unless it's supported with actual data.

 

[Tncdrew]

We have 2 3.6L powered Jeeps in the driveway. Aside from the smoother so starts the rest of what you claim isn't even noticeable driving the 2 back to back. Shifts are no smoother, there definitely is no extra oomph on take offs. 0-60 is the same. It's placebo effect at best if you think it's game changing. The fact that it doesn't improve mpg in the slightest, even in city driving, prices is not doing much. The 4xe has extra oomph and the much improved 0-60 to prove it. Etorque does so little it can't be measured...impressive.

I'd love to see feedback from some of the Jeep techs that frequent this forum on the numbers of warranty jobs, 4Xe vs etorque....

 

[Zandcwhite]

I'd love to see feedback from some of the Jeep techs that frequent this forum on the numbers of warranty jobs, 4Xe vs etorque....

With more power comes more issues in my experience. Both because it's physically harder on parts and because it encourages more aggressive driving. It's half the reason Toyotas have legendary reliability, boring cats driven boringly don't tend to break. And shaking of toyotas, there seem to be a huge number of issues with their hybrid power in their current vehicles. Almost like putting 2 powertrains in the same vehicle doubles the potential for issues...surprisingly. But the over hyped 48v starter that can't be quantifiably proven that it does anything does it reliably.

 

[av8or]

FWIW I’ve owned many regular gas and diesel vehicles in my life, I’ve owned two Prius hybrids and one RAV4 plug in hybrid, and now own a fully electric pickup truck. I‘m not any kind of environmentalist and saving the planet has had nothing to do with my purchases (I am a fan of efficiency). My 2 current vehicles are a JLUR 3.6 straight ICE, and a Rivian R1T BEV.

This will offend some and others will simply think I’m lying (not sure what I’d get out of lying to strangers on the internet but whatever). It took me awhile to figure it out, but IMO hybrids and plug in hybrids are the worst of both worlds. You still have the maintenance of ICE and a second complex system for the electric side and both have to function properly for the vehicle to work. I say pick your poison straight ICE or straight BEV.


The Rivian is the best vehicle I’ve ever been in and I absolutely love it, but it can’t do what the Jeep can. The straight axles and low gearing of the Jeep simply can’t and won’t be beat off road until someone figures out how to have it all, low gearing for precise low speed control, straight axles for traction and articulation, and powered by an electric motor in a vehicle that’s reasonably light. The Rivian is OK off-road, but the Jeep is a beast. As far as daily driver/road tripper BEV is so much better.

 

[Ron Texas]

@Zandcwhite's response, which was based on a significant amount of A / B comparative analysis, differed from what you're predisposed to believe, therefore you're closing your eyes and explicitly ignoring his conclusions?

I have my own data. I have driven v6 with and without eTorque and the I4. My observation is the eTorque has superior drivability hands down. What I have experienced first hand leads me to believe he is making it up to win an argument. I'm not ignoring his conclusions. I just don't believe them. This conclusion is also based on other statements he has made which cause me to give him no credibility. Do you have any first hand experience or are you just jumping on me for recreation? If you are going to jump on members for politely disagreeing with anyone that creates an atmosphere where speech is chilled. I find your language to be excessive, (ignoring and closing my eyes) but crafted to stay within forum guidelines. How would you like to read a response like that to one of your posts? In my view both of you are trolling. He's on ignore. You are next.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

Infrastructure, absolutely. But I'll disagree on most other points. Stellantis can't even build gas powered cars. From an engineering perspectice, the 4xe is fine, if not downright reliable. So is the 3.6, 2.0 and 392. But they all have problems because the factory is crap shoot. QC doesn't exist for the mechanical bits. And it comes down to corporate jerking the line workers around so much. People appreciate stuff like the 4runner because it's made in Japan. The reason that means something is because their employee turnover is incredibly low. Not so much here.

There's a reason the Charger BEV isn't doing well, and it's not that's it's a BEV. It's that it's a poorly executed BEV.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

Most dryers (and a lot of ovens) are gas, not electric, so most houses are 110V only. However, a few garages have a 220V outlet for a welder, which would be really convenient for charging.

Around here (in FL), most homes have a 240 for a washer hookup, either an older N10-30, or an N14-30, which is pretty decent L2 for an EV, that's 30-20%*240 = ~5.7kW

And then there are some handy smart switches like so:

https://splitvolt.com

https://getneocharge.com

That allow connection of the dryer and EVSE (aka, "charger") at the same time, will switch one vs. the other, and they even have setups where you can specific the EVSE side as an N14-50 (since that's a common L2 plug spec), but it will limit it to 30a (technically 24a since charging runs at 80% the full circuit).

Just kind of a general FYI for those considering an L2 setup who might have easy access to the "dryer outlet", and don't want to install a dedicated 50-60a circuit

Oh, I guess it should be mentioned, the 4xe is limited to 32a max (due to the onboard charger, the EVSE is really just a switch), but will, of course, negotiate that even on a higher output EVSE

 

[BXFXJeep]

Hyundai/Kia are also known for poor quality, but their EVs are doing great on reliability while their gas cars still sometimes spontaneously combust.

It's just a pity their EVs are so damn ugly.

 

[cansberry]

It's just a pity their EVs are so damn ugly.

Both Kia and Hyundai have their winners and losers here. The Ioniq 5 is sick, the Ioniq 9 looks like a whale. The EV9 looks great, the EV6 just looks wrong. But at least none of their cars are boring.

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