TrailRecon- Engine Failure

[kah.mun.rah]

I watched that. Brad took it well. I've had things like that happen to me before and I did not have the same reaction, would end up selling the vehicle ASAP.

Based on his history, he will sell it before the year is over. After he gets his social media worth of content from it, it will be on to the next one.

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[SadRobot]

Based on his history, he will sell it before the year is over.

He is also fortunate to have what looks like a very good relationship to a shop. I went through 2 shops before I could even get someone willing to give me the time of day to diagnose what was wrong. First shop told me there is no way to diagnose an engine and the second shop told me to just keep driving it and it's probably fine and engines just make those noises.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Why would managers (or more likely "bean counters") care about the oil that the engineer's specify? That's silly. The only reason that the bean counters might care is long term longevity (because it affects the reputation of the automaker and thus the bottom line)...but then they would not be changing the recommendations of the powerplant team.

It is not silly. Bean counters care about beans, specifically how many they have or do not have.

Oil viscosity is related to beans, whereas reducing the viscosity equates to increased MPG, but typically at the cost of longevity. Why would they care about MPG? Simply put, the corporate average fuel economy, or CAFE, equates to millions of dollars across a fleet when that fleet has many gas guzzlers. In a fleet with low MPG vehicles like the Wrangler, the OEM does everything it can to increase the MPG to obtain those credits.

From lowering viscosities and capacities to introducing the maximum number of plastics throughout the vehicle, including the engine, to front axle disconnects, to transmissions with multiple overdrive gearing, to start/stop systems, to weight reductions, and the list goes on, none of those changes are conducive to longevity.

 

[Ratbert]

He is also fortunate to have what looks like a very good relationship to a shop. I went through 2 shops before I could even get someone willing to give me the time of day to diagnose what was wrong. First shop told me there is no way to diagnose an engine and the second shop told me to just keep driving it and it's probably fine and engines just make those noises.

I would bet his shop did it all for free too.

 

[SadRobot]

I would bet his shop did it all for free too.

Yeah the 3rd shop was asking for about 9k in labor to do the work of replacing my engine.

 

[TheRaven]

OR, the powerplant team is given directives from the get go and told to focus on certain aspects. i unlocked almost 200 hp on my gt500 but doing a pulley swap, CAI and a tune. why didnt the engineers just do that in the first place? perhaps they were given directives that it needs to get at least Xmpg and last X years long, and meet certain EPA requirements etc... they have parameters they are given to work within. they dont just design it however they want. engineers have complained about that many times. that's why boutique manufacturers make cars that break world records. they let the engineers loose. dont you think jeep engineers have been wanting to put V8s in jeeps for yeeears? do you think its the engineers who say no, no 5.7s. only 6.2s!

Still doesn't explain why bean counters would care about oil viscosity beyond longevity. But your example with the GT500 is DIRECTLY about longevity. You can generally get a lot more power out of any given engine by pushing it closer to its limit...but that's bad for longevity which is one of the biggest reasons it didn't come from the factory that way.

Oil viscosity is related to beans, whereas reducing the viscosity equates to increased MPG, but typically at the cost of longevity. Why would they care about MPG? Simply put, the corporate average fuel economy, or CAFE, equates to millions of dollars across a fleet when that fleet has many gas guzzlers. In a fleet with low MPG vehicles like the Wrangler, the OEM does everything it can to increase the MPG to obtain those credits.

LOL no. The idea that a switch from 5w-30 to 0w-20 results in a measurable increase in fuel mileage is laughable. That's ridiculous. Yes less friction equates to more efficiency...but that's internal to the motor...we're talking minute changes here that wouldn't even show up when looked at at a generational level. It's just too small a difference. That's not even addressing the fact that no automaker is going to risk the reputation of their drivetrains for a chance at a 0.01mpg increase.

No, automakers are not sacrificing longevity for miniscule improvements in fuel mileage.

 

[Nokones]

funny, i just did a quick google about this 3.6 and compression and octane lol. when i took my gt500 to the track, they said to run 91 (race gas if possible) to help maintain temps. per google: Yes, the Pentastar 3.6L V6 engine is a high-compression engine. The original version had a compression ratio of 10.2:1, while later revisions increased it to 11.3:1. This higher compression ratio contributes to both increased power and improved fuel efficiency.

that could be the reason JLs have more issues with the 3.6 than JKs.....? especially when offroading, as opposed to street usage. @SadRobot you should probably switch to 91 from now on, especially for offroad excursions. i know im going to.

In very hot weather, although, the ECM will assist with timing detonation to a degree, it is best to run the 91 stuff, if you live in an environment like the land of Cacti and Gila Monsters. I have always run 91 in my cars regardless if it calls for it or not.

 

[Nokones]

So far, at 11K, no tick even when the engine has been running for over a hour with air temps 100 degrees. Also, I do not hear any ticking upon start up, but it only has 11K on the clock and the start-up air temp this time of the year is usually 70 or more when I first start the vehicle for the day.

 

[CarbonSteel]

LOL no. The idea that a switch from 5w-30 to 0w-20 results in a measurable increase in fuel mileage is laughable. That's ridiculous. Yes less friction equates to more efficiency...but that's internal to the motor...we're talking minute changes here that wouldn't even show up when looked at at a generational level. It's just too small a difference. That's not even addressing the fact that no automaker is going to risk the reputation of their drivetrains for a chance at a 0.01mpg increase.

No, automakers are not sacrificing longevity for miniscule improvements in fuel mileage.

You need to do more research--it is quantifiable and it is especially quantifiable from an OEM's perspective who has access to the controlled testing that is required to prove it and gained the credits that come with it. Why do you think there are now oils on the market that are 0W-16, 0W-12, and soon to be 0W-8? Do you think they are for longevity or for MPG?

Whether you believe it or not is your choice, but your opinion does not make it less true.

 

[DanW]

It didn't retired 3.6 because of you

I wish I had a clue what that meant.

 

[DanW]

You need to do more research--it is quantifiable and it is especially quantifiable from an OEM's perspective who has access to the controlled testing that is required to prove it and gained the credits that come with it. Why do you think there are now oils on the market that are 0W-16, 0W-12, and soon to be 0W-8? Do you think they are for longevity or for MPG?

Whether you believe it or not is your choice, but your opinion does not make it less true.

Clearly it is for fuel economy, but they have not given up on longevity, either. Engines and cars are lasting longer than ever. That simple fact cannot be ignored. Better engine designs, tighter tolerances, and better oils all have allowed for better fuel economy.

 

[Jeep Junkie]

Guys, so how in the world did that Ram ProMaster make it to 626,000 miles? Please don't forget, we have been using that example to tease the 2.0T owners. Time changes so quickly, now the 2.0T owners are telling us to dump our 3.6 Stupid Trail Recon should have kept this classified for the team

 

[Ratbert]

I wish I had a clue what that meant.

I'm thinking it's the result of English as a second language.

 

[DanW]

Guys, so how in the world did that Ram ProMaster make it to 626,000 miles? Please don't forget, we have been using that example to tease the 2.0T owners. Time changes so quickly, now the 2.0T owners are telling us to dump our 3.6 Stupid Trail Recon should have kept this classified for the team

That Promaster did it on 20 weight oil, too. Mobil 1 mostly, with some Valvoline here and there, and with 7,000 mile oil change intervals, with a few going further than that.

 

[svtrit]

When I was a kid I used to play with the Lucas display on the auto parts store counter top. It showed how Lucas oil made oil stick better.
Reading this got me thinking that if Lucas really worked, this situation could be a possible solution to buy some time. They would probably be posting on ALL the formulas of their miracle solution. I know it helped my YJ with 250,000 as it got closer to throwing a rod in increasing oil pressure. But, in the end it’s snake oil that does nothing to help.

I’ve read of people following the OLM with the factory spec oil having no issues and the guy who changes every 3000 miles with a top tier 5w-30 having the issue.

it’s just luck if the draw I guess. Since I have a 2014 3.6 (131.000 miles on 5w-30 at 5000 miles) and a 2020 3.6 (58,000 miles, just bought it, history shows dealer maintenance) I’ve doubled my chances for sure.

anyone else noticing the Toyota 4Runner ad on this thread? Well placed Toyota!

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