Stop/Start unavailable @!

[mwilk012]

Is that while the Jeep is running? Because the alternator should be pushing more like 14v.

The alternator kicks off when both batteries are charged and cycles as necessary.

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[JeepFiend]

The alternator kicks off when both batteries are charged and cycles as necessary.

Hmm, none of my other vehicles did that. Of course, they have less computer control than the Fiats do. Although the F-150 is close, but it still keeps a pretty constant 14v when driving with nothing more than the stereo on.

 

[mwilk012]

Hmm, none of my other vehicles did that. Of course, they have less computer control than the Fiats do. Although the F-150 is close, but it still keeps a pretty constant 14v when driving with nothing more than the stereo on.

Tons of modern vehicles do this. Saves fuel, extends alternator life. Probably not good for batteries.

 

[Stampitall2]

Is that while the Jeep is running? Because the alternator should be pushing more like 14v.

Now it's showing 14+volts while driving....but how do i tell if that is both batteries? Tge auto stop/start is still disabled.

 

[GtX]

Tge [The] auto stop/start is still disabled.

This is a good thing. It saves you the trouble of pushing the little button. You're winning.

 

[JeepFiend]

Now it's showing 14+volts while driving....but how do i tell if that is both batteries? Tge auto stop/start is still disabled.

You may want to reference @mwilk012 comments. It seems my information may be outdated. If it does read 14+v while driving though, my first thought would be it's not battery or alternator related. In previous experience, dead cells would cause a voltage drop, a bad alternator would as well. Do you have an OBD2 reader to see if it's generating any codes that may not be causing a CEL?

 

[Stampitall2]

Troy, which JL do you own? I feel like I'm getting mixed signals when reading your original post. I say this because you seem to reference a 3.6L Rubicon, which runs on 2, 12V batteries, while you also are referring to a 48 volt battery.

@Stampitall2

Hi Lisa, I am going to assume that you are running the 3.6L JL.

If this is the case, the voltage you see on the EVIC (i.e. the dash) will, in all cases but ESS events, be a composite voltage of both of your batteries. During ESS events the voltage displayed is that of only the small ESS battery just on the other side of the passenger's front seat.

Short of rewiring the factory layout, never to my knowledge does the EVIC display only the main battery's voltage.

As for the voltage fluctuations--such is the nature of a smart alternator as found in your vehicle. As already mentioned, it takes gasoline for the alternator to make current and if your batteries are charged the alternator is going to produce less voltage, demanding less gasoline, and save you fill up money.

I suspect that your hubby's keeping the vehicle in ACC mode overnight in it giving you the notice you describe can be rectified with enough driving, or by placing a trickle charger on the main battery's terminals while the vehicle is parked. While at rest both batteries of a 3.6L are connected in parallel so the trickle charger will reach both batteries.

Thank you...i'll

Troy, which JL do you own? I feel like I'm getting mixed signals when reading your original post. I say this because you seem to reference a 3.6L Rubicon, which runs on 2, 12V batteries, while you also are referring to a 48 volt battery.

@Stampitall2

Hi Lisa, I am going to assume that you are running the 3.6L JL.

If this is the case, the voltage you see on the EVIC (i.e. the dash) will, in all cases but ESS events, be a composite voltage of both of your batteries. During ESS events the voltage displayed is that of only the small ESS battery just on the other side of the passenger's front seat.

Short of rewiring the factory layout, never to my knowledge does the EVIC display only the main battery's voltage.

As for the voltage fluctuations--such is the nature of a smart alternator as found in your vehicle. As already mentioned, it takes gasoline for the alternator to make current and if your batteries are charged the alternator is going to produce less voltage, demanding less gasoline, and save you fill up money.

I suspect that your hubby's keeping the vehicle in ACC mode overnight in it giving you the notice you describe can be rectified with enough driving, or by placing a trickle charger on the main battery's terminals while the vehicle is parked. While at rest both batteries of a 3.6L are connected in parallel so the trickle charger will reach both batteries.

Thank you. We did have ghe charger on it for 2 12 hour sessions...and have been driving it a bit...i'll keep drivibg and if it doesnt self resolve i'll have them check it at the dealer. Appreciate your input.

 

[191185]

Troy, which JL do you own? I feel like I'm getting mixed signals when reading your original post. I say this because you seem to reference a 3.6L Rubicon, which runs on 2, 12V batteries, while you also are referring to a 48 volt battery.

@Stampitall2

Hi Lisa, I am going to assume that you are running the 3.6L JL.

If this is the case, the voltage you see on the EVIC (i.e. the dash) will, in all cases but ESS events, be a composite voltage of both of your batteries. During ESS events the voltage displayed is that of only the small ESS battery just on the other side of the passenger's front seat.

Short of rewiring the factory layout, never to my knowledge does the EVIC display only the main battery's voltage.

As for the voltage fluctuations--such is the nature of a smart alternator as found in your vehicle. As already mentioned, it takes gasoline for the alternator to make current and if your batteries are charged the alternator is going to produce less voltage, demanding less gasoline, and save you fill up money.

I suspect that your hubby's keeping the vehicle in ACC mode overnight in it giving you the notice you describe can be rectified with enough driving, or by placing a trickle charger on the main battery's terminals while the vehicle is parked. While at rest both batteries of a 3.6L are connected in parallel so the trickle charger will reach both batteries.

hello,

how do I know which one I have? It is a 2021 3.6 Rubicon.
I ordered the Jeep, and it says 3.6 24V VVT eTorque.
Does that mean I have the eTorque engine with a 48 v battery and start stop with two 12 V batteries ?

 

[TheNewGuy]

hello,

how do I know which one I have? It is a 2021 3.6 Rubicon.
I ordered the Jeep, and it says 3.6 24V VVT eTorque.
Does that mean I have the eTorque engine with a 48 v battery and start stop with two 12 V batteries ?

You either have the 48v battery with the regular battery under the hood (eTorque)or the 2 batteries, regular and AUX, under the hood (ESS). You don't get both setups. The AUX and 48v batteries are for the start/stop function. You clearly have the 48v battery.

 

[191185]

You either have the 48v battery with the regular battery under the hood (eTorque)or the 2 batteries, regular and AUX, under the hood (ESS). You don't get both setups. The AUX and 48v batteries are for the start/stop function. You clearly have the 48v battery.

Thank you! that clears things up..

I was reading about people ditching the AUX battery altogether ... Looks like I don't have to worry about that .

 

[Mathami]

So I cleared the code with a scanner again. .. Now on Sunday, the CEL came back on after clearing within 10 seconds.

This time, I went for a 15 minute drive, and all is good! no CEL code, no start / stop error .. going to run some more errands later, if code is still off, I guess I'm good ?

Will post updates ..


Drove another hour or so .. still no CEL ... I'm going to say that was the fix. . .If the lights come on again I'll post back.

I've got that start stop unavailble thingy after I installed AUX on my JLU 2020 Sport, found this clip online, I bought the fuse array, i'll try and update you

 

[Mathami]

I've got that start stop unavailble thingy after I installed AUX on my JLU 2020 Sport, found this clip online, I bought the fuse array, i'll try and update you

Changed fuse array , didn’t fix it, I’ve looked again in the wiring to check anything loose, nothing was loose, I started the car and the start stop alert was gone, weird, everything works fine now

 

[jeepoch]

There are about 20 conditions that can cause the Start/Stop to not work. They are all listed in your owner's manual.

• Driver’s seat belt is not buckled.
• Driver’s door is not closed.
• Battery temperature is too warm or cold.
• Battery charge is low.
• The vehicle is on a steep grade.
• Cabin heating or cooling is in process and an acceptable cabin temperature has not been achieved.
• HVAC is set to full defrost mode at a high blower speed.
• HVAC set to MAX A/C.
• Engine has not reached normal operating temperature.
• Engine temperature too high.
• The transmission is not in a forward gear.
• Hood is open.
• Transfer case is in 4L or Neutral.
• Brake pedal is not pressed with sufficient pressure.
• Accelerator pedal input.
• Vehicle speed threshold not achieved from previous auto-stop.
• Steering angle beyond threshold. (ESS Models Only)
• ACC is on and speed is set.
• Vehicle is at high altitude.
• System fault present.

@RoadiJeff,

Thanks for reprinting the list of reasons disabling the ESS. Unfortunately, you missed a couple.
• Battery Charging
• Battery Protection Mode

I experience at least one or the other of these two at least twice a week, even though I put my batteries on a tender just as often. However, I certainly don't have the eTorque with the 48V system. I have the much (much) crappier little mini AUX battery setup on my 2019 Sport S 3.6L Auto.

I have been to the dealership on numerous occasions, about a half dozen now all with the same complaint - "ESS is silently disabled (no cluster warning lights), but the EVIC indicates either one of the two above reasons."

They have replaced my Intelligent Battery Sensor (IBS) twice, the AUX battery once and they even kept it all day sitting on a charger. Still no matter what they do, the ESS stops working a few days later. Yet, no matter what, they insist that my Main battery is OK.

That unfortunately leaves either the charging system or a parasitic draw. However, I have NEVER yet experienced anything close to a battery related issue (other than the two above ESS complaints). My JL starts right up every time with zero problems. Even at cold temperatures down to -15°F (I live in Colorado).

I regularly check the seating of my fuses and don't experience any other electrical or mechanical issues whatsoever. If not for this annoying ESS disable, my JL has been 'perfect' over all 29K miles driven so far. Much of that off-road up here in the mountains.

Yet this does leave me with a sour taste at wondering how well I can actually trust that this JL won't leave me stranded somewhere?

Most people who spend hundreds of dollars installing all sorts of contraptions to permanently disable the ESS, would envy me. Yet I rather like ESS. It's a soft comfort listening to silence when it would rather be idling at a stop. I even have fun with it at stoplights keeping it running (or not) based on the 7 second rule. You'd burn more gas idling for greater than seven seconds than restarting the engine at proper ESS conditions.

So I tend (but not always) play with mother nature and try to outwit her when coming up to a red light. How can I save more fuel, by letting ESS kick in with a heavy foot on the brake or keep it running with a light foot? Of course it all comes down to timing. But this keeps me more Lazer focused on lots of things at intersections. Traffic patterns, pedestrians and their signals, the number of vehicles in the patterns to name a few. However, I find it fun to play this little puzzle. Makes red lights a little more tolerable.

The good news is that I can easily get up to 22 mpg even though my rig is lifted on 35's.

So yes, to me ESS makes my JL even much more of a blast to drive. Don't even get me started with playing with the AutoStick on this transmission. It's like having both a manual and auto rolled into one. I'll admit on most ocvasions, it upshifts a lot smoother than I ever can. But I really love downshifting this thing. Best damn daily driver I've ever owned.

Yet having a dysfunctional ESS system due to a crappy design (or implementation) is really frustrating. Sorry Jeep but I could not in good concsience rate you a 10. This ESS (or overall charging system) SUCKS.

Regardless, you have me addicted, because otherwise this craft is a boatload of fun to pilot. Especially off the beaten path where I could not care about ESS in the slightest. It's disabled intentionally via the pushbutton when I'm in 4Lo and never in 'D'. Not a stoplight anywhere in the awesome panorama of the high altitude vistas I frequently find myself in.

Great vehicle, shitty ESS.

Jay

 

[Affroe]

I have the 3.6l 24v vvt etorque rubicon with tow package.. on my dash it always says I'm at 13.6- 13.8 volts on my battery.. is that normal?.. I'm used to my other cars running at 14.5 or so... my start/ stop still works though

 

[jeepoch]

As a follow up to my previous post #46 above, I have since located the major source of my ESS / battery charging issues. It turns out that a professional installation of my satellite receiver was the primary culprit. In order to keep the cockpit clean I purchased an integrated Vais Tech GRS FC02 Satellite Receiver unit that plugs into the UConnect 3 Radio via the USB-A plug in the Media Center. The satellite receiver then shows up and is controlled as an iPod with full control of browsing channels and presets via either the radio touchscreen or steering wheel pushbuttons. Pretty nice.

It turns out however that this unit was wired directly to battery instead of switched ignition. This then was the source of all (well most) of my ESS trouble. It was just enough of a draw to drain the AUX to a low enough potential to make it appear to be discharged to the point of disabling the Auto Start Stop system.

Interestingly, after measuring the parasitic power draw, the GRS only consumes several milliamps (pretty insignificant), but as long as the USB port is plugged in, the UConnect 3 consumes about an amp. Even with ignition off. Yikes.

So until I can noodle out how to internally shut down this crappy 3" UConnect when something (likely anything) is plugged into it, I just have to unplug the USB cable. Picture below.

So no matter how well you do your modding homework on these JL's, there's always some sort of cause and effect with unintended side effects. But I really do enjoy listening to music way out in the mountain wilderness well outside the range of cellular service when off-roading here in my home state of Colorado. Sure I can run an mp3 collection or two but the pseudo random variety of dozens of my favorite stations and news feeds are certainly much easier. It also frees up my smartphone for GPS navigation.

As far as this ultra piss-poor ESS design, each and every time after I air up when leaving a trail (using a portable air compressor at engine idle), the ESS remains disabled for the entire trip home with a "Battery Protection Mode Disabled" complaint, no matter the distance (overall charging effort). Only after the vehicle then sits overnight (also with the USB cable unplugged) will the ESS system then work normally again. The vehicle always starts up with no issue during or after the trip, with or without unplugging the satellite receiver. It's just the ESS system must be 'babied' and spoon-fed into working again with tender loving care in regards to battery pampering.

Thankfully, I'm willing to give it.

Regardless, it's still embarrassing that the world's foremost and capable off-road vehicle has to be treated so tenderly. Shame on you Jeep for such a truly poor charging system design using two dissimilar sized batteries. You deserve the egg on your face and all the crappy reputation you have unfortunately earned over this ESS mess.

Jay

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