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Zuni

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This is admittedly off-topic, but for something to "burn off" it would literally have to be burning, as in being on fire. Dump some beer into a pot of chili and there will be no flame established. So this chosen nomenclature is the first thing wrong with people's acceptance of this.

Secondly, people seem to accept that it "burns off" without critical response. If I dumped a shot glass full of urine into your pot of chili and told you with confidence to not worry because it "burns off", would you be so accepting? Nope. Besides reacting to the unsavoriness of this, all of your intellectual suspicion would surface quickly, as it should, unlike when people tell us the alcohol "burns off" where we all seem to mindlessly accept it as truth.

You mention boiling point. Does alcohol "boil off"? Do you boil your chili, or only heat it up? For how long to you actually boil your chili at the boiling point? Long enough to know for a fact that the alcohol you added was removed? Are you sure it's at the actual boiling temperature and throughout the entire pot of chili? Do chefs in restaurants boil all the food to which they add alcohol, and boil it long enough to evaporate all of it at the expense of the integrity of the dish they are creating? Nope. This boiling point idea is not occurring in practice, is it?

One can intellectually posit what you have said but the error is in us thinking the situations in the real world cooperate with the arguments we make.

So, I had my suspicions about "burns off" and did my own research. Seems others went before me.

I have attached a PDF I made of a collection of articles on the topic. You might be surprised how much of the added alcohol remains in the food to which it is added. Burning off is decidedly a myth.

Thanks.
I boil my chilli for an hour with one beer and if u boil the chilli with urine in it u would boil off some water but leave the !flavor! (Toxins in this case.) Hate to bust ur bubble but by burn off I mean evaporate. And anything at least simmering will cook off the alcohol eventually. Evan an hour should evaporate most of it I would think. Ur pdf kind of proves my point I believe!
 

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Because i'm a student of science, and always open to new evidence, I decided to do another trial run. When I first bought my JLU80, I did the same test I do on every single vehicle I buy - three tanks of premium followed by three tanks of regular (with resets at the start of each trial, of course)...and at that time I saw zero difference in efficiency, driving manners, or power. But it occurred to me early in this thread that i've never tried 89 so I figured what the hell why not. Since Aug 28th i've been running 89 octane, i'm about midway through the second tank, so about 650 miles so far. Average before the test - 19.1mpg. Average since starting the test - 18.9mpg. Zero difference in power and driveability. Thus far.
 

sunset

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I boil my chilli for an hour with one beer and if u boil the chilli with urine in it u would boil off some water but leave the !flavor! (Toxins in this case.) Hate to bust ur bubble but by burn off I mean evaporate. And anything at least simmering will cook off the alcohol eventually. Evan an hour should evaporate most of it I would think. Ur pdf kind of proves my point I believe!
I don't think you read it. There's a lot there. You wrote, "Evan an hour should evaporate most of it I would think." You're sticking with your prior beliefs, clearly. As if I had not posted anything at all. And that's what we alcohol-avoiders are up against, friend. I can provide studies and it matters not. But at least you acknowledge that alcohol does not "burn off" and that it does not evaporate completely. Most people don't talk like they know that.

Perhaps always say "evaporate" moving forward, friend, and help be correct in what you assert. That's a good start, I suppose.

And, to reiterate the fine point I tried to put on this, it is the ubiquitous misuse of that term "burns off" that got me to investigate. People misuse what they say and that can be accompanied by more mistakes, as I had found.

Do you actually BOIL your chili as in letting it bubble like boiling water, for the entire hour, or is this another instance where you actually meant a different word, like "simmer"? Myself, I've never seen a chili recipe advise to boil. Simmer, yes.

Simmer: To be cooked gently or remain just at or below the boiling point.

And my example of the urine was to explain how people's critical thinking does not activate when they hear that alcohol "burns off" and so I stopped short of surmising what actually becomes of the urine, my point having been expressed, and I note you went on to speculate on that. Okay.

As long as we both can isolate what I am saying from what you are saying, that is best.
 
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TheRaven

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Just closing the loop on my last comment. Test complete - I did five tanks of 89, over 1600mi. Previous average on 87 was 19.1mpg. Average over 5 weeks running 89 octane - 19.0mpg. My last tank average was 19.1mpg. So, zero change. No change in power, driving manners, or engine noise.

Same results I got when I tried running premium years ago. Same results i've had on every single NA motor i've owned this century.
 

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YBABRAT

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Just closing the loop on my last comment. Test complete - I did five tanks of 89, over 1600mi. Previous average on 87 was 19.1mpg. Average over 5 weeks running 89 octane - 19.0mpg. My last tank average was 19.1mpg. So, zero change. No change in power, driving manners, or engine noise.

Same results I got when I tried running premium years ago. Same results i've had on every single NA motor i've owned this century.
Donno why I get noticably better MPG. Other than differences in model year and I have a pedal monster to tone down throttle response, driving above 70 can lower MPG. Bad aerodynamics eats MPG above 65MPH and very noticable above 70MPH.

Maybe 2dr with 4.10 gears and 33s are well suited matched for v6 computer?
 

WI_Sarge

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I just ran a couple tanks of premium 93 non-ethanol in 2.0T. I hardly got any better gas mileage nor did I feel any difference performance wise than 87. Then again, I don’t drive fast either.
 

TheRaven

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Donno why I get noticably better MPG. Other than differences in model year and I have a pedal monster to tone down throttle response, driving above 70 can lower MPG. Bad aerodynamics eats MPG above 65MPH and very noticable above 70MPH.

Maybe 2dr with 4.10 gears and 33s are well suited matched for v6 computer?
Nope. It's because comparing fuel efficiency between random drivers on the internet is absolutely useless. You drive different roads differently than I do. This is why I always jump in to these threads when someone tries to tell EVERYONE that they will get certain results by doing the same thing they did. The fact that it works for you means nothing for anyone else.

I can't begin to speculate why you get different results from me, but you do so we have to acknowledge that.
 

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Nope. It's because comparing fuel efficiency between random drivers on the internet is absolutely useless. You drive different roads differently than I do. This is why I always jump in to these threads when someone tries to tell EVERYONE that they will get certain results by doing the same thing they did. The fact that it works for you means nothing for anyone else.

I can't begin to speculate why you get different results from me, but you do so we have to acknowledge that.
I would say comparing fuel efficiency even with the same driver is absolutely useless. You are not driving under the same conditions each time you drive. One drive you might get stopped by more lights, another time you might have less wind. Another time could be more traffic that you deal with. Etc... I drive pretty much the same distance every day that I work, but it can vary my MPG on the same route and distance. I have ran all of my cars, trucks, and motorcycles, except for my first car, on premium gas (except my one diesel truck) and drive pretty conservatively and my mileage can swing a lot. Like on my 2019 2.0 that I had that could range anywhere from 21.5 to 25.5. I even had it drop to 16 MPG on one trip because of driving in to 60 MPH winds. My current 392 can range from 15 to 17 MPG. A friend of mine used to work at a testing lab and he tested different grades of gas under the same conditions and the higher grade gas got better fuel mileage. That's why I use the higher grade fuel. But everyone can use what they want. Otherwise, wouldn't be a need for multiple grades.
 

jeepingib

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Air density differs across the country and even day to day. I know that I switched back to 87 the other day because it's a bit cooler here, but this last weekend I drove across the state and was cruising windows down, and I could definitely hear some pings and stutters as the ECM struggled to correct the timing. But not everyone is going to experience the same situation. I also have a fairly heavy Jeep and I'm lugging it with heavy 38" tires and beadlocks but still running 4.10 gears.
 

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I would say comparing fuel efficiency even with the same driver is absolutely useless.
Completely agree. There are so many factors that have a significant influence. Especially so with a Jeep.

As an example, I did some MPG experiments to entertain myself on a drive to Bonneville Speedway. It's a long, uncrowded, flat and straight 80 MPH speed limit run all done within an hour so weather conditions were pretty close. I set my ACC to different speeds and measured by what the instant MPG gauge on the dash settled to over the course of 10 miles. It isn't the most accurate measurement but it's close enough to illustrate a point.

70 MPH - 16 MPG
75 MPH - 14 MPG
80 MPH - 12 MPG
Setting ACC to 80 MPH & short distance, then drafting a semi doing 75 MPH - 22 MPG
The best MPG I've ever gotten was in 4HI on a remote flat dirt road doing 30 MPH - 25 MPG

So many things impact what MPG a JL will get it's ridiculous. Prevailing wind speed and direction, other vehicles on the road, terrain, your driving style, even your mood. It requires laboratory conditions to eliminate all of those very significant variables. So much so that the laboratory conditions don't really relate to real-world results.
 

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Another good reason to run premium fuel in our vehicles. Also reduces engine wear

 
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I would say comparing fuel efficiency even with the same driver is absolutely useless. You are not driving under the same conditions each time you drive. One drive you might get stopped by more lights, another time you might have less wind. Another time could be more traffic that you deal with. Etc... I drive pretty much the same distance every day that I work, but it can vary my MPG on the same route and distance. I have ran all of my cars, trucks, and motorcycles, except for my first car, on premium gas (except my one diesel truck) and drive pretty conservatively and my mileage can swing a lot. Like on my 2019 2.0 that I had that could range anywhere from 21.5 to 25.5. I even had it drop to 16 MPG on one trip because of driving in to 60 MPH winds. My current 392 can range from 15 to 17 MPG. A friend of mine used to work at a testing lab and he tested different grades of gas under the same conditions and the higher grade gas got better fuel mileage. That's why I use the higher grade fuel. But everyone can use what they want. Otherwise, wouldn't be a need for multiple grades.

It's all about noticable improvement. I know our Jeeps are unique even though they be of similar build. City tooling around you will not see improvement. Under gearing albeit manual or 3.x ratio or heavyweight JLU and or additional aftermarket equipment.

All I was trying to state is ecu will note better fuel for combustion and remove the detune to operate with lower grade fuel. Some look at one point of reference and make it all about that, not the whole picture.
 

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All I was trying to state is ecu will note better fuel for combustion and remove the detune to operate with lower grade fuel. Some look at one point of reference and make it all about that, not the whole picture.
This is an argument that has been raging across the automotive internet forums for as long as they've existed. Obviously the computer will need to retard timing less for higher octane fuel. But the real question should be - what do we get out of that? If we don't get more power or more efficiency then what does it matter? It's not going to break anything because it's working exactly as it was designed, and the people who built it thoroughly tested it on 87 octane fuel and approved it. So if knowing your computer is advancing timing a bit more is enough for you to spend the extra money on premium fuel then good for you I guess...but for me and I think the majority of people here, we need need to see tangible results to justify the cost.
 

Bikemobile

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This is an argument that has been raging across the automotive internet forums for as long as they've existed. Obviously the computer will need to retard timing less for higher octane fuel. But the real question should be - what do we get out of that? If we don't get more power or more efficiency then what does it matter? It's not going to break anything because it's working exactly as it was designed, and the people who built it thoroughly tested it on 87 octane fuel and approved it. So if knowing your computer is advancing timing a bit more is enough for you to spend the extra money on premium fuel then good for you I guess...but for me and I think the majority of people here, we need need to see tangible results to justify the cost.
The real variable here is the infinite ranges of actual octane ratings from the hundreds of thousands of gas pumps and the also infinite atmospheric pressures that vary based on elevation differences and also changes that happen throughout a drive. Not to mention the infinitely variable compression ratios that will exist on the hundreds of thousands of engines built to good but not perfect standards. Also these engines wearing out slowly one RPM at a time. Also the infinitely variable road conditions, ambient conditions, tire diameters and driving styles.

Keep buying premium if you think it works better. I don't think it matters.
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