Rock Krawler 3.5 X-Factor

Martindfletcher

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Im sitting at 12.5 in the front from lower spring perch to upper bucket edge lip, rear is at 9.75 from lower axle bumpstop pad to bottom of frame. I dont remember what I had in the rear before hand unfortunatly, sorry.

FYI I finally realized my rear bump stop is way too far foreward. The stops miss it. I would check yours or move it rearward. I can’t recall what the instructions said. I am sure they also say to check it..

Likely loose nut operating the wrench.
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Fizzlepop

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FYI I finally realized my rear bump stop is way too far foreward. The stops miss it. I would check yours or move it rearward. I can’t recall what the instructions said. I am sure they also say to check it..

Likely loose nut operating the wrench.
Set them all the way to the rear and then flex it is what book says
 

Moto_21

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FYI I finally realized my rear bump stop is way too far foreward. The stops miss it. I would check yours or move it rearward. I can’t recall what the instructions said. I am sure they also say to check it..

Likely loose nut operating the wrench.
On rk bumps? I have the stupid rancho block still
 

Rock Krawler Suspension

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FYI I finally realized my rear bump stop is way too far foreward. The stops miss it. I would check yours or move it rearward. I can’t recall what the instructions said. I am sure they also say to check it..

Likely loose nut operating the wrench.
That is a great point and exactly why the rear bump stop is on a slotted slide plate. This way, no matter what lift you have, even if you retain all stock rear arms your bump stops can be lined up properly....

RK
 

Jergs

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As stated before, I've defended RK quite a few times in the RK/MC debate prior to the JL lifts. Also, to suggest that me not achieving 3.5 inches of lift is based on shock heights or bumpstops is ridiculous. I've provided ample evidence that something is wrong, and it always comes back to bumpstops. I'd love for you to explain how you came to the conclusion that my bumpstops and/or shocks are limiting my lift height.

Now, as for the rest of the "confounding variables", nothing I have done has caused any situation I am in. I spent $350 bucks having a reputable shop go over my install, readjust every single control control arm and trackbar, tighten and locktite it all as well. I have sent enough pictures to two shop owners to fill a high school yearbook.

Just because a company has a reputable past, doesnt mean the customer is automatically at fault. I'm fairly certain it doesnt take a ASE certified mechanic to swap out some springs and shocks.
I think you need to take a step back a take a breath. My comment was not directed at you at all, but rather to the guy who was worried about his order and simply stating he is in good hands as long as all the necessary steps are followed to achieve the desired result. Not every comment on this thread is a personal attack against you, so take it easy.
 
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Fizzlepop

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I pulled the trigger and swapped my RK kit for the MC gamechanger.

I can tell you with absolute certainty that the MC articulates better, sits higher, and binds less. The RK is definitely thicker, but having put stock equipment through some pretty obnoxious situations, not once did the stock equipment fail from contact with foreign objects. Articulation and ground clearance in my opinion are the two largest factors when I'm wheeling. The MC kit has both of those exceedingly covered.

My height sits at right about 4 inches with no additional weight added on. The driveshaft does make contact at full droop, as to be expected. The drag link, although flexed, is not flexed to the point where breaking is of concern.

I have not tested the kit off pavement yet(that will be this saturday), but on a 30 degree ramp it past my RK kit by 6 inches(I did not have bumpstops on the RK kit at the time, but after installation of bumpstops that RK supplied me free of charge articulation was less). I'm sure some of you will immediately question such a difference, as I did. Verified by two shops, my RK installation was correct. If that ramp is any indication of offroad performance, I'm in for a fun ride.

On the road I felt like the RK kit did a good job of absorbing things such as potholes, cracks, etc. Offroad, it was too soft. I found myself constantly bouncing off the bumpstops in the rear. Weight such as bodies and equipment definitely had an impact on height as well, and often times I was scraping my skids on the same places I was scraping with my spacer lift. The kit did handle all abuse i threw at it but ground clearance and articulation were definitely lacking. I went on the same trails that I did with my RC spacers, and felt no difference in CoG off camber, so I cannot comment on their rear trackbar. Perhaps 25-30 degrees isnt enough to see the benefit.

The MC kit is much more firm. Bodies, equipment, it doesnt matter. The springs just don't move. I am fully confident that additional armor and mods will have little effect on the height of this kit. You do feel more of the pavement than the RK kit, but not so much that it's annoying or inconvenient. As stated earlier, the height is every bit of 4 inches. Given the fact that I have to half-hop into the Jeep, it's clear that ground clearance is better. When fully dropped, I can literally fit my 4 year old between the top of my tire and the bottom of the fender. That's with 2 inch bumpstops front and rear, which is currently the limiting factor. I can safely drop an inch and remove the lower portion of my fenders if I wanted more. The ONLY downside I can honestly claim out of this kit is that my 35s now look ridiculous.

Another benefit I feel is worth mentioning is price. At about $500 cheaper, you get a complete kit from MC. No need to spend a dime more(unless, of course, you dont install it yourself; then you'll pay labor). The RK X-Factor prices at just under $2,400 without shocks or bumpstops. After it's all said and done, with mid-point shocks, you can expect to spend upwards of $3,000 on their kit. The MC, on the other hand, is $2,300 with shocks and bumpstops, and that's it.

While not a major factor, RK kits also require maintenance. Following their recommended schedule, you can expect to service your kit every 4 or so months, and unless you have an elbow fitting on your grease gun, requires dropping the control arms or cutting a hole in your control arm bracket. While not such a big deal, some may be a bit apprehensive on taking a hole saw to their $50k vehicle. The instructions do not mention the angled fitting that I saw, only recommend the hole saw. Keep this in mind if you purchase the kit. MC requires little to no maintenance, no special tools(other than a pipe wrench sent from the gods for their jam nuts), and no modification.
 

Gdub

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I pulled the trigger and swapped my RK kit for the MC gamechanger.

I can tell you with absolute certainty that the MC articulates better, sits higher, and binds less. The RK is definitely thicker, but having put stock equipment through some pretty obnoxious situations, not once did the stock equipment fail from contact with foreign objects. Articulation and ground clearance in my opinion are the two largest factors when I'm wheeling. The MC kit has both of those exceedingly covered.

My height sits at right about 4 inches with no additional weight added on. The driveshaft does make contact at full droop, as to be expected. The drag link, although flexed, is not flexed to the point where breaking is of concern.

I have not tested the kit off pavement yet(that will be this saturday), but on a 30 degree ramp it past my RK kit by 6 inches(I did not have bumpstops on the RK kit at the time, but after installation of bumpstops that RK supplied me free of charge articulation was less). I'm sure some of you will immediately question such a difference, as I did. Verified by two shops, my RK installation was correct. If that ramp is any indication of offroad performance, I'm in for a fun ride.

On the road I felt like the RK kit did a good job of absorbing things such as potholes, cracks, etc. Offroad, it was too soft. I found myself constantly bouncing off the bumpstops in the rear. Weight such as bodies and equipment definitely had an impact on height as well, and often times I was scraping my skids on the same places I was scraping with my spacer lift. The kit did handle all abuse i threw at it but ground clearance and articulation were definitely lacking. I went on the same trails that I did with my RC spacers, and felt no difference in CoG off camber, so I cannot comment on their rear trackbar. Perhaps 25-30 degrees isnt enough to see the benefit.

The MC kit is much more firm. Bodies, equipment, it doesnt matter. The springs just don't move. I am fully confident that additional armor and mods will have little effect on the height of this kit. You do feel more of the pavement than the RK kit, but not so much that it's annoying or inconvenient. As stated earlier, the height is every bit of 4 inches. Given the fact that I have to half-hop into the Jeep, it's clear that ground clearance is better. When fully dropped, I can literally fit my 4 year old between the top of my tire and the bottom of the fender. That's with 2 inch bumpstops front and rear, which is currently the limiting factor. I can safely drop an inch and remove the lower portion of my fenders if I wanted more. The ONLY downside I can honestly claim out of this kit is that my 35s now look ridiculous.

Another benefit I feel is worth mentioning is price. At about $500 cheaper, you get a complete kit from MC. No need to spend a dime more(unless, of course, you dont install it yourself; then you'll pay labor). The RK X-Factor prices at just under $2,400 without shocks or bumpstops. After it's all said and done, with mid-point shocks, you can expect to spend upwards of $3,000 on their kit. The MC, on the other hand, is $2,300 with shocks and bumpstops, and that's it.

While not a major factor, RK kits also require maintenance. Following their recommended schedule, you can expect to service your kit every 4 or so months, and unless you have an elbow fitting on your grease gun, requires dropping the control arms or cutting a hole in your control arm bracket. While not such a big deal, some may be a bit apprehensive on taking a hole saw to their $50k vehicle. The instructions do not mention the angled fitting that I saw, only recommend the hole saw. Keep this in mind if you purchase the kit. MC requires little to no maintenance, no special tools(other than a pipe wrench sent from the gods for their jam nuts), and no modification.
How bout some pics?
 

River City Offroad

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I'm glad that you're happy with the results. I have followed this thread from the start and wish that we could have looked at compressed and extended length on the shocks that you had vs the shocks you got with the Rock Sport system. I can't remember exactly what transpired, but I am not sure how bump stops became such a huge part of this conversation. Your frustration was with the lack of up travel and droop, which was an issue without bump stops, which lead me to want to know what the specs were on the shocks you had in the Jeep.

The shocks are your limiting factor on droop and compression on these things. The coils are free to unseat if the shocks are too long under droop, and the shocks will limit your up travel if they are too long at a fully compressed length as well. That is assuming you have no bump stops, like you did initially and are using the shocks as your limiting factor for compression.

I think that the information about your previous shocks and the new shocks would be a very helpful bit of data to compare for anyone that might stumble across this thread in the future. Do you have part numbers on the Sky Jacker shocks that you were using before by chance?

Marcus

EDIT - I'm not trying to take up for any companies here. I really just want to know what was causing your Jeep to not perform to your expectations. At the end of the day coil springs are coil springs...they compress and extend and there isn't anything holding them in the Jeep without the shock in there. Thats the cliff notes version of my novel. LOL
 
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Fizzlepop

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The previous shocks were skyjacker M95s, had a grey body. Dont recall part numbers, but their length was 29.5 if I remember correctly. Current shocks are MC RS shocks, which I believe to be 30" at all 4 corners. The SJ shocks did not max out on the ramp, at either compression or travel. They did max out on the CTI on the downwards stroke, but not compression which is what lead to the 850 score. Obviously with no bumpstops that's unrealistic. As mentioned, after bumpstops were put on, the articulation was less.

Bumpstops became such a large portion of my previous conversation because I was told more or less adding a bumps would fix all my woes. It did fix binding of trackbar on exhaust and swaybar on frame, but then restricted travel.

As comparison, 2 inch bumpstops all around on the MC kit offered much more articulation than my RK kit did unbumped.

I do not presume to know how the two differentiate so vastly, but I don't believe 1/2 an inch(a whole inch to be generous) difference in shock extension would cause the amount of difference shown in the pictures.
 
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Fizzlepop

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I suppose the bowing of the shock body against the frame could result in less shock travel as well, shortest distance between two points and all that. The MC kit fixes that with outboard shock mounts.
 

River City Offroad

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Thats right.. I forgot the track bar was hitting the exhaust. Thats why the bump stops got brought into the conversation and yes, they are designed to limit your suspension travel, which would solve that contact. A better solution for that would have been to lose the raised TB bracket and just run the adjustable bar like they do in the MC kit. Especially if your main concern is maximizing travel. I will pull my rear TB bracket out and see how my handling is affected just for fun. (I have a 2.5 X-Factor on my JL.)

"The SJ shocks did not max out on the ramp, at either compression or travel. They did max out on the CTI on the downwards stroke, but not compression which is what lead to the 850 score."

^^ That answers my questions about the shocks being too long or too short. Sounds like they are very well balanced as far as compression and droop go. There aren't any specs on the SkyJacker website for reference, so I figured I'd ask. Thanks for the info!

Marcus
 

Rock Krawler Suspension

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We are glad you are happy with your results. We believe Marcus covered most of the points that are providing you with the results you are seeing and just to touch on a few of those points.

When you had the RK system installed you did not have any bump stops installed nor did the shocks you had maximize the performance of the system. The shocks you had were from another manufacturer and not one we have or are working with to have shocks that compliment out products. That will account for any ride quality variations you may have experienced or mentioned above. If there rear shocks are too soft you will drive right through them and find bottom.

The RK X Factor Series has more misalignment capabilities than the product you are on now. For example, the X Factor lower arms have 90 degrees of total misalignment capabilities versus 68 in your current products so the ability is there, you just need to unleash it. If your rig ever got dialed in a and setup properly on the RK products we are sure you would have been amazed with the off road ability of the products.

We have our in house shock options coming and are working with Fox and Bilstein directly to have shocks that we feel compliment our products properly as well as meet the needs of the consumers brand wise.

As far as lift heights is concerned; we strive to be as close to nominal as possible. Some may say they want to go way over because they plan on you running heavy armor products, but we are of the mind set of continiuing the smart build trend that has taken the JK by storm over the past 4-5 years. Lighter armor products such as our Krawler Lite Bumpers, Savvy or Genright Aluminum bumpers, light skid plates such as Artec's Aluminum products. Building a JK or JL this way makes your vehicle fun to drive all the time and does not weigh it down to turn it into a slug. If you build your JL wrong you will quickly turn the nicest Wrangler ever built into a heavy pig and an 8 speed auto into a 5 speed auto!

Good luck with your Jeep, we hope to see you on the trails. Keep an eye on the drive shaft and TRE on the passenger side connection of the drag link. We know with taller lifts and long travel shocks that high steer conversions and a new front driveshaft will be required.

RK
 
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Fizzlepop

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We are glad you are happy with your results. We believe Marcus covered most of the points that are providing you with the results you are seeing and just to touch on a few of those points.

When you had the RK system installed you did not have any bump stops installed nor did the shocks you had maximize the performance of the system. The shocks you had were from another manufacturer and not one we have or are working with to have shocks that compliment out products. That will account for any ride quality variations you may have experienced or mentioned above. If there rear shocks are too soft you will drive right through them and find bottom.

The RK X Factor Series has more misalignment capabilities than the product you are on now. For example, the X Factor lower arms have 90 degrees of total misalignment capabilities versus 68 in your current products so the ability is there, you just need to unleash it. If your rig ever got dialed in a and setup properly on the RK products we are sure you would have been amazed with the off road ability of the products.

We have our in house shock options coming and are working with Fox and Bilstein directly to have shocks that we feel compliment our products properly as well as meet the needs of the consumers brand wise.

As far as lift heights is concerned; we strive to be as close to nominal as possible. Some may say they want to go way over because they plan on you running heavy armor products, but we are of the mind set of continiuing the smart build trend that has taken the JK by storm over the past 4-5 years. Lighter armor products such as our Krawler Lite Bumpers, Savvy or Genright Aluminum bumpers, light skid plates such as Artec's Aluminum products. Building a JK or JL this way makes your vehicle fun to drive all the time and does not weigh it down to turn it into a slug. If you build your JL wrong you will quickly turn the nicest Wrangler ever built into a heavy pig and an 8 speed auto into a 5 speed auto!

Good luck with your Jeep, we hope to see you on the trails. Keep an eye on the drive shaft and TRE on the passenger side connection of the drag link. We know with taller lifts and long travel shocks that high steer conversions and a new front driveshaft will be required.

RK
Outside of shocks, I'm not sure what else would have needed to be dialed in. I did install bumpstops, and it did fix my clearance issue, albeit at the expense of articulation.

To be fair, I knew the SJ shocks would most likely bottom me out quite a bit, and am glad I put the bumps on before i wheeled it. They got used often. The measurements for the SJ shocks were 28.5 and 29.5. I gained 1.5 inches of travel in front, and .5 inch in the rear. I don't think that difference would have caused over 6 inches of travel difference, but I could be wrong. The misalignment is higher on the RK kit, but I can't see that having an impact on articulation. At least in the 3.5-4.5 arena. Even at 30", the shocks are bottoming out before the control arms begin to bind on the MC kit.

As far as the drag link and exhaust, no signs of the drag link giving out, though it is stressed quite a bit at full droop. The driveshaft slip boot was ripped off within the first hour of wheeling it, and the next day I tore the boot at the transfer case off of it. I did not have any rubbing on driveshaft with my RK kit, even through "bear tracks" which is nothing but off camber flexing. Opinion could go either way on that, so I'll leave it there. My 1310 is in the works.

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