Regretting not getting LED's

[bumpit]

I never been driving and thought about how glad I was that my headlights were cheap to replace.

After having vehicles with both I'd only go back to halogen if forced. Aftermarket led can be good but I find the large majority look like ass.

For 900 bucks I think the factory leds are decently priced considering everything you get.

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[Matthew/E36]

Sun at its peak (Mid Day) is 5000K, you will NEVER see 5600K or higher ever used in commercial, retail or industrial environments all due to the Blue hue of the higher kelvin. 5000K is the standard Sports lighting, Warehouse lighting and production lighting, 4000K is commercial and retail.

With 5600K color rendering is sacraficed, it just happens that higher kelvin LED has by default a better lumen to watt ratio and is cheaper to produce.

We have seen halogen lamps in industrial environments that are 20-30 years old in single and double shift facilities, Halogen is one of the oldest lighting technologies and considered the most reliable, however its down fall is lumen depreciation as they rarely burn out they just dim till a low glow is left.

Now LED has significant limitations in its own right, being electronic it is subject to thermal conditions which is the #1 killer of all electronics. Putting LED in a sealed plastic fixture(headlamp) with marginal heat sinks they have a relative short life even compared to other older technologies. Fortunately LED in cars the lights are actually used very little as a whole. Both technologies are reliable options for cars however LED is simply a more powerful and efficient solution.

Heat and cold does not impact Halogen lamps, however LED is problematic. A car in Arizona that runs with the headlights on all day those LED lamps will have 30-50% of the life of the same LED in a norther climate. Those cars with LED in southern climates will be changing headlights is a few year especially if they spend a lot of time on the road in hot climates. With that said proprietary LED headlights may be an expensive high maintenance item.

At least with e stock Halogen you can replace both Halogen lamps with LED lamps for about $40, while they face the same heat issues it is a lot cheaper to replace those at $40 instead of $500.

While LED is a great buzz word it is not eh holy grail of lighting with the exception of performance and efficiency

Color temperature and CRI are not the same so you can't claim higher CCT sacrifices CRI. Although you can claim incandescent radiators have the highest CRI, despite having a lower CCT than the sun.

Agreed lumen depreciation hits incandescent hard; thus a lamp "still burning" or on after XX years means little if the lumen output is 10% of initial. Ex: Centennial Light Bulb.

Of course LED has limitations. It's more a stretch to make claims about lamp life though. If designed right, they can last 100-200k hours. Now a standard hardware store (or per a lamp catalog) incandescent is rated at what 1,000-2,500 hours. Now you could dim that to 80% and gain 50% more life. But LED is already at 50,000 hours. Cheap ones are at 20-30k. So incandescent is definitely way down in lamp life. Incandescent is just not the most efficacious, or highest output source.

There are some less common cases where incandescent is better, but those aren't it.

LED has been around for a decade...if you want a buzzword, induction lamps would be a better fit as those have more serious limitations and the market indicates that.

 

[lightsout]

Color temperature and CRI are not the same so you can't claim higher CCT sacrifices CRI. Although you can claim incandescent radiators have the highest CRI, despite having a lower CCT than the sun.

Agreed lumen depreciation hits incandescent hard; thus a lamp "still burning" or on after XX years means little if the lumen output is 10% of initial. Ex: Centennial Light Bulb.

Of course LED has limitations. It's more a stretch to make claims about lamp life though. If designed right, they can last 100-200k hours. Now a standard hardware store (or per a lamp catalog) incandescent is rated at what 1,000-2,500 hours. Now you could dim that to 80% and gain 50% more life. But LED is already at 50,000 hours. Cheap ones are at 20-30k. So incandescent is definitely way down in lamp life. Incandescent is just not the most efficacious, or highest output source.

There are some less common cases where incandescent is better, but those aren't it.

LED has been around for a decade...if you want a buzzword, induction lamps would be a better fit as those have more serious limitations and the market indicates that.

That was a typo it should have been color Temp (not rendering thanks for the correction), You do not understand LED Lamp life it is completely different then incandescent or fluorescent or even HID in terms of how it is measured. When LED life is stated that ONLY means that there will be 70% lumen output it has no relevance to actual life, as the weakest link is the Driver which is not a part of that life rating, Then any lamp life reference is established based upon testing in a controlled environments at 25C temps That is a L70 test. This is the snake oil of LED and that false perception regarding the LED's. It used to be Lamp life was the important number now it is driver life which is NEVER disclosed. We sell tens of thousands of LED lighting fixtures whereas the actual LED module (chips) have virtually no failures however Drivers account for 95% of all LED failures yet we warranty for 10 years not 1-2 years like the aftermarket LED head lighting manufactures....

Our commercial LED products our LED fixtures when tested by independent labs have determined our L70 (70% lumen maintenance) is 259,000 hours, FACT most will never last that long, secondly 95% of all drivers are only rated at 50K hours. Now factor in ambient temperatures as mentioned above ALL LED are tested at 25C and all data is based on that, however anytime that LED is operated in temps higher than that the life is diminished this is what makes life estimates almost impossible to predict. Heat is the #1 killer of LED's. Then you also have engine heat that compounds the issue. Also keep in mind that quality name brand LED components has no relevance to life because it is how the components are used in each fixture, thermal management and the ambient environment that matters.

Putting LED inside of a sealed plastic container (headlamp) is one of the hardest thing to do and have a reasonable life which is why many LED 's like this use built in fans to cool them (as many LED head lamp retrofits have). This is why the LED head lamps have the worst warranties of just about any LED fixtures, a 1-2 year warranty only suggest the manufacture has no confidence in their product.

My point is the reliability is subjective and early adopters my be paying a steep maintenance price especially since most of the LED's available have short warranties.

 

[viper88]

Are the factory LED head lights warm enough to melt snow and ice? People are reporting yes and no?

 

[DaltonGang]

I was regretting, not getting LED Headlights, until I upgraded my Halogen bulbs. Very satisfied now.

 

[DanW]

Are the factory LED head lights warm enough to melt snow and ice? People are reporting yes and no?

There is a report of icing over. I'll live with that possibility because it is slim. I've got unheated Truckliteson my JK and I've had them for probably 6 years. TheyveTbeen through MANY a snowfall and snow storm. Only one time did I encounter conditions that froze them over. It was in blizzard conditions in Vail Pass. The snow was falling wet then freezing hard. I left the incandescent fog lights in the JK and had Baja Designs incandescent off road driving lights, so I was ok. The snow on top of ice and high winds were the big problem.

I'm not worried on the JL, but if I were, I'd consider a couple Hella Black Magic incandescent driving lights. ThatdTtake care of you if you encountered such conditions. They look good, too.

https://www.4wd.com/p/hella-rallye-...60VLUjfp60Q5mmfoL0pyzcnMZg_6m1GBoCW9QQAvD_BwE

 

[viper88]

There is a report of icing over. I'll live with that possibility because it is slim. I've got unheated Truckliteson my JK and I've had them for probably 6 years. TheyveTbeen through MANY a snowfall and snow storm. Only one time did I encounter conditions that froze them over. It was in blizzard conditions in Vail Pass. The snow was falling wet then freezing hard. I left the incandescent fog lights in the JK and had Baja Designs incandescent off road driving lights, so I was ok. The snow on top of ice and high winds were the big problem.

I'm not worried on the JL, but if I were, I'd consider a couple Hella Black Magic incandescent driving lights. ThatdTtake care of you if you encountered such conditions. They look good, too.

https://www.4wd.com/p/hella-rallye-...60VLUjfp60Q5mmfoL0pyzcnMZg_6m1GBoCW9QQAvD_BwE

I think I remember you stating the factory LEDs being bright enough where you were considering removing a light bar. I figured I'd go for the LEDs after that and was second guessing after reading about the potential for freezing. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[DanW]

I think I remember you stating the factory LEDs being bright enough where you were considering removing a light bar. I figured I'd go for the LEDs after that and was second guessing after reading about the potential for freezing. Thanks for the feedback.

Yep, the light bar really doesn't add much, at all. I'm looking at the Baja Designs LP6, but still might just go with a set of those Hella's. I might even buy both and just put the Hella's on there from November to April. With the Aux switches, it is just so easy to wire things up. It is almost plug and play, so the swap would be easy. Hmmm.

 

[InvertedLogic]

Only one time did I encounter conditions that froze them over. It was in blizzard conditions in Vail Pass.

That is the one and only location my HID projectors have ever frozen over too. Vail Pass in March with blizzard conditions starting after the tunnel. I had my incandescent fogs on as well. I stopped somewhere in Eagle-Vail, wiped them off, and was good to go the rest of the night.

 

[Torero]

There is a report of icing over. I'll live with that possibility because it is slim. I've got unheated Truckliteson my JK and I've had them for probably 6 years. TheyveTbeen through MANY a snowfall and snow storm. Only one time did I encounter conditions that froze them over. It was in blizzard conditions in Vail Pass. The snow was falling wet then freezing hard. I left the incandescent fog lights in the JK and had Baja Designs incandescent off road driving lights, so I was ok. The snow on top of ice and high winds were the big problem.

I'm not worried on the JL, but if I were, I'd consider a couple Hella Black Magic incandescent driving lights. ThatdTtake care of you if you encountered such conditions. They look good, too.

https://www.4wd.com/p/hella-rallye-...60VLUjfp60Q5mmfoL0pyzcnMZg_6m1GBoCW9QQAvD_BwE

I’m 100% with you.

 

[Boatbuilder88]

I heard this a 1000 times already. I cant understand why people still buy or order without.... literally 20 if these threads.

Depends where you live. Since the headlights are recessed in a cavity and can collect snow/ice, I prefer a heated unit. Waiting for Trucklite or some other aftermarket replacement with heating elements. I do like the OEM halos though.

 

[jmcdtucson]

Anyone tried LED bulb replacements like these?
https://www.jeepfederation.com/led-headlight-conversion-kit-for-jeep-wrangler-jl-2018-up/

 

[XJrider]

Depends where you live. Since the headlights are recessed in a cavity and can collect snow/ice, I prefer a heated unit. Waiting for Trucklite or some other aftermarket replacement with heating elements. I do like the OEM halos though.

After a bad snowstorm last couple days i can confirm this. I had to pull over 2 times to clear mine. Very annoying!

 

[Sorbs]

The factory LEDs are great. Worth paying extra for sure.

I’ve had JW Speakers and Amazon cheapo’s. The JW’s are little higher lighting quality than the cheap knock offs but both provided uneven light distribution. The factory units distribute light evenly with no bright spots.

 

[XJrider]

The factory LEDs are great. Worth paying extra for sure.

I’ve had JW Speakers and Amazon cheapo’s. The JW’s are little higher lighting quality than the cheap knock offs but both provided uneven light distribution. The factory units distribute light evenly with no bright spots.

Note they are not heated and it causes issues in heavy snow...

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