PUG 3.6 Detonation issue.

[Old Dogger]

Interesting Post

The fix for the pentistar upgrade engine detonation/spark knock everyone complains about. I've been a ase certified senior master tech at a Ford dealer for 7 years. Really wanted a wrangler so I bought a 2020 jl sport brand new. 16,000 miles and After 3 visits to my local dodge dealer for the noise, advising them I know what I'm talking about and have been in this industry for almost a decade, and shooting down the "no problem found" they tried to tell me the first visit, and a pcm update i told them will not fix a base engine issuie the second visit. Told them to check these components at first visit and they never did. The 3.6 pentistar upgrade engine has a new pcv valve design compared to the 3.6 jk. By nature and bad design it will consume more oil then normal. Consuming oil=carbon build up. When you have a 11.1 high compression engine, a little carbon build up on the piston tops will turn it into a 12:1 compression engine when taking what little space is left in the combustion chamber at top dead center and filling it with carbon deposits. No pump gas will run in a 12.1 engine without detonating really bad. After 40 days at the dealer I got ahold of the field service technician with dodge and told him what I though was happening and what needed to be done. After threatening to lemon law it in ny they decided to listen to my advice. After a little research I found dodge is making a new pcv valve for the jl wrangler, but it's so new and still being produced that it dosnt even show a part number for the new design pcv valve yet. Why would they redesign a pcv valve if it wasnt having issuies? After they relayed the info to the dealer and dodge approved the updated pcv valve replacement and a bg air/fuel induction service to clean the carbon out, it runs amazing and zero detonation on a 90° day at low rpm lugging it, tried as hard as I could and it would not detonate when before it sounded like I was dragging a chain link fence under my oil pan. I don't think you would need a catch can anymore as the main reason for excessive oil consumption was the pcv. Felt great proving them wrong, but still un easy after the amount of detonating this poor engine has gone threw, doubt I will keep it past powertrain after this. Don't let the dealer tell you it's normal, detonation is NOT normal under any condition and I've seen 5.0 f150s from 2018-2019 crack pistons and bend rods from detonating (common issuie on some 5.0 coyotes from that year at specific build dates) . At the very least it will cause alot of wear on bearing and rotational parts inside the engine. Do not let them fool you into thinking it's normal because of there incompetence.

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[Petey]

Interesting Post

The fix for the pentistar upgrade engine detonation/spark knock everyone complains about. I've been a ase certified senior master tech at a Ford dealer for 7 years. Really wanted a wrangler so I bought a 2020 jl sport brand new. 16,000 miles and After 3 visits to my local dodge dealer for the noise, advising them I know what I'm talking about and have been in this industry for almost a decade, and shooting down the "no problem found" they tried to tell me the first visit, and a pcm update i told them will not fix a base engine issuie the second visit. Told them to check these components at first visit and they never did. The 3.6 pentistar upgrade engine has a new pcv valve design compared to the 3.6 jk. By nature and bad design it will consume more oil then normal. Consuming oil=carbon build up. When you have a 11.1 high compression engine, a little carbon build up on the piston tops will turn it into a 12:1 compression engine when taking what little space is left in the combustion chamber at top dead center and filling it with carbon deposits. No pump gas will run in a 12.1 engine without detonating really bad. After 40 days at the dealer I got ahold of the field service technician with dodge and told him what I though was happening and what needed to be done. After threatening to lemon law it in ny they decided to listen to my advice. After a little research I found dodge is making a new pcv valve for the jl wrangler, but it's so new and still being produced that it dosnt even show a part number for the new design pcv valve yet. Why would they redesign a pcv valve if it wasnt having issuies? After they relayed the info to the dealer and dodge approved the updated pcv valve replacement and a bg air/fuel induction service to clean the carbon out, it runs amazing and zero detonation on a 90° day at low rpm lugging it, tried as hard as I could and it would not detonate when before it sounded like I was dragging a chain link fence under my oil pan. I don't think you would need a catch can anymore as the main reason for excessive oil consumption was the pcv. Felt great proving them wrong, but still un easy after the amount of detonating this poor engine has gone threw, doubt I will keep it past powertrain after this. Don't let the dealer tell you it's normal, detonation is NOT normal under any condition and I've seen 5.0 f150s from 2018-2019 crack pistons and bend rods from detonating (common issuie on some 5.0 coyotes from that year at specific build dates) . At the very least it will cause alot of wear on bearing and rotational parts inside the engine. Do not let them fool you into thinking it's normal because of there incompetence.

About a year back or so I remember one day starting mine up and out of nowhere and all of a sudden, a huge amount of thick smoke came out .. i only had about 5k on the thing so was having heart attack while seeing it.. As luck would have it hasn't happened again .16 k now... I have to use 90 plus all the time so Im very interested to know what was done to clear the carbon... and what pcv valve i should be looking for. I have the same engine and year

 

[CarbonSteel]

Catch can to capture the extra oil the PCV is allowing to pass through?

 

[Old Dogger]

Since the factory knows that the PUG has a problem, hopefully there will be a solution in the making. One should not have to run higher than 87 octane. But this helps to explain, why some do. So far we don’t have this issue with ours, but that may change in the future.

 

[mwilk012]

What exactly do you think is different about the PCV valve design?

Do you have a manual transmission? Seems most people who complain about spark knock do.

 

[Old Dogger]

I was not the OP of that original Post. But since I read so many complaints in this Forum of spark knock, in the higher compression PUG engine, I felt that it was worth mentioning. As for the manual trans, seeing more problem of this issue, my guess is some lug their engine before shifting, which makes it more noticeable. I do not have the issue with my 8 speed auto.


^^^ As for the update.

 

[Johnbuz]

I’m really looking forward to an improved pcv or anything that will fix this issue

 

[Tethmes]

I was not the OP of that original Post. But since I read so many complaints in this Forum of spark knock, in the higher compression PUG engine, I felt that it was worth mentioning. As for the manual trans, seeing more problem of this issue, my guess is some lug their engine before shifting, which makes it more noticeable. I do not have the issue with my 8 speed auto.


^^^ As for the update.

Since that video was posted in 2019, does that mean newer model JL's will already have this updated PCV valve? Would I have to worry about this on my '22 for example?

 

[CarbonSteel]

If oil passing through the PCV is causing the carbon buildup, then a catch can would help minimize or prevent carbon build up caused by the oil burning in the combustion chamber.

In addition, since the 3.6L is a MPI engine, then running fuel system cleaner at regular intervals will also prevent carbon build up.

I have never experienced detonation in mine during the 56K I have on it, but I run a UPR catch can and Gumout All in One every 3rd tank.

 

[Old Dogger]

I run Chevron Techron through both of ours every 3,000 miles.

 

[m3reno]

I run Chevron Techron through both of ours every 3,000 miles.

I used to own a BMW 325i and they were notorious for carbon build up. The service adviser told me I would have to run Chevron Techron every 3rd tank or I would have carbon deposit build up around my valves. In fact, BMW recommended Chevron techron in it's bulletin.

 

[Old Dogger]

I used to own a BMW 325i and they were notorious for carbon build up. The service adviser told me I would have to run Chevron Techron every 3rd tank or I would have carbon deposit build up around my valves. In fact, BMW recommended Chevron techron in it's bulletin.

Yep, this is a additive that really adds value. I have used it for many years in all of our vehicles.

 

[Johnbuz]

Interesting Post

The fix for the pentistar upgrade engine detonation/spark knock everyone complains about. I've been a ase certified senior master tech at a Ford dealer for 7 years. Really wanted a wrangler so I bought a 2020 jl sport brand new. 16,000 miles and After 3 visits to my local dodge dealer for the noise, advising them I know what I'm talking about and have been in this industry for almost a decade, and shooting down the "no problem found" they tried to tell me the first visit, and a pcm update i told them will not fix a base engine issuie the second visit. Told them to check these components at first visit and they never did. The 3.6 pentistar upgrade engine has a new pcv valve design compared to the 3.6 jk. By nature and bad design it will consume more oil then normal. Consuming oil=carbon build up. When you have a 11.1 high compression engine, a little carbon build up on the piston tops will turn it into a 12:1 compression engine when taking what little space is left in the combustion chamber at top dead center and filling it with carbon deposits. No pump gas will run in a 12.1 engine without detonating really bad. After 40 days at the dealer I got ahold of the field service technician with dodge and told him what I though was happening and what needed to be done. After threatening to lemon law it in ny they decided to listen to my advice. After a little research I found dodge is making a new pcv valve for the jl wrangler, but it's so new and still being produced that it dosnt even show a part number for the new design pcv valve yet. Why would they redesign a pcv valve if it wasnt having issuies? After they relayed the info to the dealer and dodge approved the updated pcv valve replacement and a bg air/fuel induction service to clean the carbon out, it runs amazing and zero detonation on a 90° day at low rpm lugging it, tried as hard as I could and it would not detonate when before it sounded like I was dragging a chain link fence under my oil pan. I don't think you would need a catch can anymore as the main reason for excessive oil consumption was the pcv. Felt great proving them wrong, but still un easy after the amount of detonating this poor engine has gone threw, doubt I will keep it past powertrain after this. Don't let the dealer tell you it's normal, detonation is NOT normal under any condition and I've seen 5.0 f150s from 2018-2019 crack pistons and bend rods from detonating (common issuie on some 5.0 coyotes from that year at specific build dates) . At the very least it will cause alot of wear on bearing and rotational parts inside the engine. Do not let them fool you into thinking it's normal because of there incompetence.

I was thinking about this issue. If the long term carbon buildup is causing the detonation, then the good results reported is caused by the induction cleaning in the short term, right? And the redesigned pcv valve could be a long term fix to stop the carbon from returning, right? What I am getting at, is that installing the pcv valve won't stop the detonation by itself, and is part of a long term strategy, which includes the cleaning.

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