Power cutoff for Winch

[RicRecon]

My Badlands winch from HF came with the disconnect switch. Very easy to wire in and I’ve used it no big deal and safe.

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[Atomic-Mouse]

You posted a link to some data that has says nothing about a winch, a solenoid, or any other shut off device preventing a fire of any sort. Once again, people make comments without any data to prove their point. Somebody please show me something that says jeeps without a cut off switch for the winch wire create a fire. There isn’t any, and if there is, it’s a negligible amount. Yes everybody knows defective wiring can cause an electrical fire. That’s what the NFPA report says.

It’s fine that you refuse to see both sides of this argument.
At least you can acknowledge defective wiring can cause fires, some people can’t even agree on that. Thats the only point I was trying to make with the NFPS report, a high percentage of vehicle fires are electrical based. If I can reduce that risk it’s worth it to me and apparently a few others. Like I said though, a disconnect is not 100% necessary.

Little more light reading for you, skim through the wiring portion of the installation instructions. Contents #8-#9

https://manuals.plus/badland-apex/5...ith-synthetic-rope-and-wireless-remote-manual

 

[azjl#3]

My Badlands winch from HF came with the disconnect switch. Very easy to wire in and I’ve used it no big deal and safe.

Yep.

It is not needed.

Desired? meh, but since it came with winch, it's on there.

While I appreciated the cut wire possibility, I will not survive a head on that has the energy to push a blue ox tow plate and metal cloak bumper into the winch cable. Stock bumper, meh, might, lots of variables occur during an impact of that violence. Bottom line you do you.

 

[RicRecon]

Yep.

It is not needed.

Desired? meh, but since it came with winch, it's on there.

While I appreciated the cut wire possibility, I will not survive a head on that has the energy to push a blue ox tow plate and metal cloak bumper into the winch cable. Stock bumper, meh, might, lots of variables occur during an impact of that violence. Bottom line you do you.

I will

 

[gato]

I have a 300-400A in line high capacity fuse. I think it is a simple, inexpensive way to minimize chances of a fire. If I had a high amp, high quality switch available at the time I did the install, I'd have used that.

But at lease it is fused.

This is what I used:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001AFZL9O?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_2&th=1

It's rated at 300A @58V, so probably trips around 400A @12V.

 

[PT's19Rubi]

More so than a cut off switch, IMO you need something that comes with a switch built in - a Circuit Breaker. Pinch the hot wire or short out the winch motor while your cut off switch is On and a burnt Jeep or blown up battery is very possible.

The problem is finding a circuit breaker with the capacity to hold when the winch motor is under a strain. My winch is rated at nearly 500 amps when grunting for everything its got. Unfortunately, small, inexpensive 500 amp breakers are pretty much impossible to come by. I'm running two 300 amp breakers in parallel. This is not ideal as it's unlikely any two breakers will trip at exactly the same load, but it's better than not having any circuit protection. As backup, my winch leads are long enough to bypass the circuit breakers if necessary. Also, the breakers, which sit on top of the battery, are Off unless on a trail.

 

[2019JLUR]

I'm 100% for a cut-off switch. It's cheap easy insurance against the low but measurable possibility of a front end collision dead shorting a 2/0 wire direct from the battery - if the collision didn't start a fire, you can be sure the improvised stick welder in the front bumper will make your day more exciting. And, if you're unlucky enough to rear end someone, that dead short is also really close to the gas tank of the car you just hit... I simply installed the Bulldog Winch 500 Amp Shut-Off Switch (20248) in-line power lead from the battery. https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories-and-Parts/Bulldog-Winch/BDW20248.html. I even managed to fit the switch next to my Genesis dual battery tray with the hood closed. And as another commenter said, for the 10 minutes a year I use the winch, I simply open the hood and turn the switch on. What I typically do is turn the switch on whenever I head off-road, otherwise its off.

 

[Plumbean]

[snip]

I run a 500A solenoid on my hot lead, near the battery. The trigger wires for it connected to Aux 3.

I have this same setup. I like this better than the installation of a switch, as I have Aux 3 programmed to default to "off" on startup, so I can't accidentally leave the winch powered up.

 

[C.Sco]

More so than a cut off switch, IMO you need something that comes with a switch built in - a Circuit Breaker. Pinch the hot wire or short out the winch motor while your cut off switch is On and a burnt Jeep or blown up battery is very possible.

The problem is finding a circuit breaker with the capacity to hold when the winch motor is under a strain. My winch is rated at nearly 500 amps when grunting for everything its got. Unfortunately, small, inexpensive 500 amp breakers are pretty much impossible to come by. I'm running two 300 amp breakers in parallel. This is not ideal as it's unlikely any two breakers will trip at exactly the same load, but it's better than not having any circuit protection. As backup, my winch leads are long enough to bypass the circuit breakers if necessary. Also, the breakers, which sit on top of the battery, are Off unless on a trail.

The problem with a running 500A or 600A worth of circuit breaker(s) is that it's entirely possible a hot short may still not even generate enough amperage to kick the breaker. The OEM battery can only put out like 600A at it's absolute max, which is more than enough to easily start a fire, but maybe not enough to kick the breaker(s).

I like the idea of using breakers for other things, and I use exactly that same breaker (but the 100A version) for my 4AWG 12V wire I ran to my cargo area for air compressor and inverter. And it works great for that. But I don't think it will work very well trying to put a breaker on a 500A device, even if you could find a breaker (or combination of breakers) rated for that much amperage, I still don't think it's going to work very well as a circuit breaker when used on a car battery.

Edit to add: the other problem is that when you run 2 breakers in parallel, the electricity always follows (only) the path of least resistance. Since both paths have about the same resistance, the amperage just picks one of the two paths, basically at random. So all of the amperage is always running through only one of the breakers, until that breaker trips, and then it all runs through the second one, and then that one trips. So it's effectively not any different than just running your winch on a single 300A breaker. I would guess that if you ran your winch under a heavy load, that's exactly what will happen to you - it'll work for a minute until the winch cable is really tight, then it'll trip the first breaker, but the winch will continue to work for a few more seconds, then trip the second breaker shortly after that.

 

[Zandcwhite]

More so than a cut off switch, IMO you need something that comes with a switch built in - a Circuit Breaker. Pinch the hot wire or short out the winch motor while your cut off switch is On and a burnt Jeep or blown up battery is very possible.

The problem is finding a circuit breaker with the capacity to hold when the winch motor is under a strain. My winch is rated at nearly 500 amps when grunting for everything its got. Unfortunately, small, inexpensive 500 amp breakers are pretty much impossible to come by. I'm running two 300 amp breakers in parallel. This is not ideal as it's unlikely any two breakers will trip at exactly the same load, but it's better than not having any circuit protection. As backup, my winch leads are long enough to bypass the circuit breakers if necessary. Also, the breakers, which sit on top of the battery, are Off unless on a trail.

If you look at the trip curve a 300A breaker will generally flow 125-150% of its rating for a full 10 seconds. Your 300A breakers will flow 375-450A...each. That's more than your battery can output in a bolted fault. By the 10 second mark that dead shorted battery is discharged to the point it isn't putting out anywhere near 600A (if it hasn't already exploded or caught fire or started a fire). And thus it will never trip the breakers. It would be easy to test but nobody ever will when I point this out. If you're sure they'll work, short the cables and find out?

 

[Jad4275]

And this is why vehicles catch on fire. Non-electricians doing electrical work.

 

[Zandcwhite]

And this is why vehicles catch on fire. Non-electricians doing electrical work.

What about electricians with 25+ years of experience doing electrical work? Unfused just like large scale 4000+ amp, 480v battery UPS systems?

 

[Jad4275]

What about electricians with 25+ years of experience doing electrical work? Unfused just like large scale 4000+ amp, 480v battery UPS systems?

You are good! My comment was in regards to some of the responses on this and the other threads about winch wiring.

 

[PT's19Rubi]

C.sco and Zach: The hope is that one 300 amp breaker will trip a little early, then the other would. Again, it's highly unlikely both inexpensive breakers actually hold till 300 amps. And, if the system doesn't trip, I have cut off switches like so many others.

Jeremy and Zach: I had 25+ years of electrical design (machine control) and 14+ years of maintenance electrician (aluminum rolling mill). Not accustomed to protecting battery supplied, high amp 12 vdc. Did more with 600 vdc and 480 to 4160 vac.

 

[Zandcwhite]

C.sco and Zach: The hope is that one 300 amp breaker will trip a little early, then the other would. Again, it's highly unlikely both inexpensive breakers actually hold till 300 amps. And, if the system doesn't trip, I have cut off switches like so many others.

Jeremy and Zach: I had 25+ years of electrical design (machine control) and 14+ years of maintenance electrician (aluminum rolling mill). Not accustomed to protecting battery supplied, high amp 12 vdc. Did more with 600 vdc and 480 to 4160 vac.

I think the opposite is more likely with parallel circuit breakers as resistance goes up as heat goes up...which pushes more current towards the cooler breaker (heat is effectively what causes the tripping) therefore making it more likely that they could flow max current even longer than a single 600A breaker but if it makes you feel safer then I guess it's effective. It would be easy to test by simply bolting the winch hot to the ground lug and flipping the switch? If the breakers are effective nothing happens. I still argue that the major winch manufacturers have done this testing (because why wouldn't you if you were getting paid to do it), and that's why NONE of them recommend fuses or breakers?

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