Outsider looking in

[Jondrew]

To the OP- just turned 10k on my Rubicon. No death wobble or any other significant issues. It’s a solid truck.

I’m a Toyota guy too. Will my wrangler go 100k+ like my Tundras? Don’t know. But it’s off to a good start. And a lot more fun

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[wibornz]

When I read threads like this, I kinda chuckle. You can find wranglers all over the web with 200,000 miles on them and going strong from every generation. People pound the hell out of these vehicles and they just keep going. Jump on Youtube for every one Toyota video there is a thousand wrangler videos. The Toyota videos are usually mild wheeling, and you can then find 1000 wrangler videos of the wrangler getting beat to death on Youtube. I think the Toyotas are bought and cared for differently and by a different kind of owner than the wrangler owner. Anyone ever see a Toyota sit outside in the rain all year with no top on or the windows down?

There are already many people posting 2018 and 2019 JL videos doing hard offroading. Now go look for the videos of 2018 and 2019 Toyotas doing hard offroading......

Actually, I am surprised by how well these vehicles hold up. I have a 2019 JLUR and well, I had to push the center console latch rod back in and put a dab of glue on it. Of course Jeep is sending a whole new lid to replace it. So I am prety much a JL trouble free owner.



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[TheWingman]

12k miles here, daily driver, no big problems. Unfortunate reality is it's more likely to be totaled by some idiot on the freeway than fall apart from bad welds.

 

[chadc880]

Ive driven 10s of thousands of jls and never came across the steering problems people have described...

See this is the complete and total bull crap us JL owners have had to put up when we brought our JL's in the beginning to our local dealers for repairs. AND its pretty obvious from the JL Forum, NHTSA Complaints and the final Write up from FCA that is does exist.

The steering issue would have never exploded like it did if we had just gotten support from FCA in the beginning.

I went to my dealer yesterday for an oil change on my JL and noted 4 recently traded in JL's all less than 5,000 miles. I made a quiet joke to my sales person and he stated they didn't want to talk about it.

In my case 70% of the problem was both upper and lower ball joints had zero torque on the caster nuts. ZERO. You can loosen them with your finger. And two loose tie rod ends.

 

[DCOURTS]

All comments here are helpful. I totally get the percentage of complainers being heard vs happy customers who are content and quiet.

It’s when I hear about consistent problems across the model (steering, coolant leak, rear defroster, etc) makes me hesitant about jumping in. Call me spoiled, but I absolutely hate having to go to a dealer for service and haven’t had to go to one with a Toyota since buying. Could be lucky with them.

I’m attracted to the JL to try something different. Always have been on the fence about getting an unlimited and thought this could be the one.

I am not an off-road hardcore guy. I have a house upstate with gravel roads, good amounts of snow in the winter and we do a bunch of fun road trips where this would fit in. Just don’t want to drop serious coin on one and have to deal with dealer visits let alone FCA crap.

 

[Rhinebeck01]

@DCOURTS

Sounds like you would be wise going with a Subaru. And... no, I am not being flippant.

 

[bryan]

I recently went through this same decision process, and decided to order the exact Wrangler I wanted. After reading tons of positive and negative reviews I started asking myself the following questions:

1. Is the reviewer relating personal experience or replaying talking points?
2. Were the reviewer's expectations reasonable?
3. How much of the reviewer's experience relates to the dealership vs. the vehicle?

I think the best advice I've seen so far in this thread is the suggestion that you drive both of the vehicles and Factor that into your decision-making process. My personal experience was that while the 4Runner had a superior on-road driving experience (95+% of what my vehicle will ever see) it fell far behind in off-road capability.

I don't have thousands of miles behind the wheel of a JL, so I can't personally endorse or fault it's quality. And while I can understand the emotional response from someone who has had a legitimate problem, I find those cases to be a small percentage of the total population. What surprised me was the comments from actual owners with legitimate problems who still really love their JL, don't regret their purchase, and think it's the finest off-road vehicle they've ever owned. And what amuses me are histrionics from those who don't even own a JL.

Please accept my best wishes for making a decision that makes you happy. And let us know how your test drives go!

 

[bryan]

Sounds like you would be wise going with a Subaru. And... no, I am not being flippant.

My wife drives a Subaru Forester. I agree that that vehicle would be a good fit with your stated criteria. But no, it's not cool. ;-)

[edited to correct spelling; there may be other errors]

 

[Rudolph Hart]

I think you’ve answered your own question already.

If you value your Toyota simply because you never have to take it in for repair and want to make a comparison with a Wrangler on that basis.... buy another Toyota

 

[sundevil827]

It’s when I hear about consistent problems across the model (steering, coolant leak, rear defroster, etc) makes me hesitant about jumping in. .

Your consistently saying it doesn't actually mean that it's a consistent problem.

Have there been reports of those things? Absolutely. However they definitely don't seem to be impacting most people, however those seem to be the things that get plenty of attention (which is exactly what you would expect.) No, I'm not trying to minimize anything, but frankly if you'll notice you see more people saying that they have absolutely no issues at all with their vehicles.

The reality, I suspect, is that FCA is probably on the lower end of overall build quality, that they have some lingering quality control issues, and that they went thru a typical launch of a new product line. It's not exactly a warm and fuzzy feeling, but the amount of people who are having no issues, or have had minor issues (and felt it was not a big deal) make up the majority of JL owners.

Heck I took a look at a Toyota 4 Runner forum: https://www.toyota-4runner.org/problems-and-warranty-issues/?s=c53791ba9d7898e5ffee82a256e9cca9

If you just skimmed the first page, you might be amazed to even be alive still driving one. Or, since you do have one, you might be able to dismiss most of the stuff as silly. From your posts, kind of sounds like you have your mind made up already. Honestly, being intrigued by something different sounds more like motivation to stick with what you know. What on earth appeals to you about a Jeep?

 

[GhostActual762]

Hasn't even been an accident reported to NHTSA for Jk or JL steering. Have been crashes and fires for the F-150.
Because it hasn't happened to most Wrangler owners. Only 300 to 400 steering problems of all types officially reported. Weld problems were for a limited set during the beginning of production and were recalled.
2012 had the 3.6 and no fires that I remember.
So go back to F-150 and make my day. How many 150s do you see on the trails? Oh right, none.

Ok before this keeps getting off the rails, 300-400 only reported? How many aren’t reporting and think it just a Jeep thing? Probably more than the 300-400 your claiming. FCA has multiple parts for steering boxes and steering components as their improving the subpar components they engineered for vehicle with initially.

If your JL is problem free then awesome, good, you paid a lot of money for it thats the way it should be.

Regardless if there’s been an accident or not the problem still exists and FCA is taking a lax approach to fixing....you cannot deny this(I guess you could try but wont change anything). This is fact.

Lol your point about the F150 not being on the trails is ridiculous and moot as it’s a fullsize truck....or am I missing something? Why would you even compare the two on the trail?

Now that there’s a few JL owners talking about their experience with their JL’s there a wealth of info on what to look for when buying. Just pray you get a good one. Cheers~

 

[kre62]

All comments here are helpful. I totally get the percentage of complainers being heard vs happy customers who are content and quiet.

It’s when I hear about consistent problems across the model (steering, coolant leak, rear defroster, etc) makes me hesitant about jumping in. Call me spoiled, but I absolutely hate having to go to a dealer for service and haven’t had to go to one with a Toyota since buying. Could be lucky with them.

I’m attracted to the JL to try something different. Always have been on the fence about getting an unlimited and thought this could be the one.

I am not an off-road hardcore guy. I have a house upstate with gravel roads, good amounts of snow in the winter and we do a bunch of fun road trips where this would fit in. Just don’t want to drop serious coin on one and have to deal with dealer visits let alone FCA crap.

I get where you are coming from, and all I can say is my JL has been perfect.

The good thing about Jeeps is that everything is modular, and can by fixed by the aftermarket.

The main concern IMO is the steering. If you are concerned about that, simply buy the Steer Smarts Yeti setup, new trackbar, draglink, and tierod. The steering will be absolutely perfect at that point, assuming it isn't from the factory.

Jeep is working out a few kinks with the steering, and i get you shouldn't have to replace components from the start, but it's not like you'd have to live with any issues either.

Im at 13k miles on my JL, and I replaced the steering stabilizer to be safe, but haven't had any major issues. Solid!

 

[nerubi]

"Regardless if there’s been an accident or not the problem still exists and FCA is taking a lax approach to fixing....you cannot deny this(I guess you could try but wont change anything). This is fact.

Lol your point about the F150 not being on the trails is ridiculous and moot as it’s a fullsize truck....or am I missing something? Why would you even compare the two on the trail?"

As some have pointed out changing steering/suspension parts with aftermarket doesn't necessarily fix the problem. My recommendation for "lax" FCA is to recall all Wranglers ever made and change them to IFS. Problem solved.

And many of the Jeep owners buy them to go off-road so why would someone bitching about possible problems buying a JL even consider an F-150. Seems like they should have just bought the Ford.

 

[Ravager]

Yes.... I have a job that consists of me being very familiar with jls... Jts as well

You must...2 years from today would be 730 days..."10s of thousands" of jeeps...even if that number were 15000, this equals 20+ jeeps a day. How many JL's are out there?

That said, my JL runs fine so far just passed 4k miles.

 

[Robmypro]

I hope this doesn't come off wrong, but I would never order a Jeep to daily drive. These things aren't Toyota or Honda in the reliability department. That doesn't mean they won't last, but rather that my intended use is for weekend fun. I guess I just have a different "bar" for fun vehicles vs daily drivers. My DD needs to be rock solid reliable. It doesn't need to be super fun. My toys need to be super fun, and I am willing to give up some reliability to get it. But this is just me. I am sure others feel very differently, especially if their Jeep is used for DD and fun.

In any case, all vehicles have issues, and the forums amplify the frustration. I have a brand new 2019 Rubicon with less than 400 miles on it, and the dash cluster seems to have issues. I just accept it as the price you pay to have a fun vehicle like this. I guess I choose to focus on the pluses and not obsess over the negatives. If you like what the Jeep Wrangler has to offer and don't mind a little inconvenience to get it, they are great vehicles.

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