Oil Analysis results?

[driventoadventure]

No; unless something has changed very recently. They also do not use many of the latest ASTM testing methodologies, they do not use gas chromatography for fuel dilution testing--their test is subjective at best since it observes a flash at a particular time in the test sequence. Last, but not least, they are more expensive that labs like Polaris/Horizon who are fully ISO certified and do use the latest ASTM methods.

Holy crap, I didn't realize that. I just kind of expected it was based on how ubiquitous popular it is with people who generally would require that. Thanks for the heads up, I am going to look around.

Is the Amsoil kit a polais/horizon reseller, or just through their labs?

It looks like price is about the same, considering the Amsoil is $35.75 with prepaid postage and Blackstone is $35 with a free test-kit and prepaid envelopes.

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[CarbonSteel]

Holy crap, I didn't realize that. I just kind of expected it was based on how ubiquitous popular it is with people who generally would require that. Thanks for the heads up, I am going to look around.

Is the Amsoil kit a polais/horizon reseller, or just through their labs?

It looks like price is about the same, considering the Amsoil is $35.75 with prepaid postage and Blackstone is $35 with a free test-kit and prepaid envelopes.

So it appears that Blackstone has updated their testing methodologies - https://www.blackstone-labs.com/about-us/astm-methods/, but still not ISO certified.

With that said, they are still no match for Polaris who is ISO 17025 certified and has far more ASTM testing methods - https://polarislabs.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/2145-01.pdf

For me, Blackstone is "easy", but the rhetoric given for the test results does not see very professional and they stated charging extra for TBN or TAN results so it rapidly became an easy choice for me.

You can order kits directly from Polaris here - https://polarislabs.com/order-kits/, but yes, I believe that Amsoil is a reseller of the kits.

 

[driventoadventure]

Does anyone have experience with the oil analysis actually making a significant difference in engine life or finding something early that saved the engine? Or is it just one more thing to be anxious about.

Im asking seriously cause I've never had it done. I just change the oil often. My old tj has 168k miles, never had the oil analyzed and when they replaced a head gasket they said everything looked great. My jl has 52k miles, no engine issues....yet.

What is the main purpose of doing this and it's it truly making a difference? What would the analysis change for you? Thanks for the info, as im obviously ignorant to the practice.

The biggest thing about any preventative monitoring is that it gives you trend information. If after a dozen oil changes you have one with a wear indicator that is significantly above average, then you know that wear indicator is showing something wrong. In the case of copper / aluminum you can say that either a bearing surface or a piston ring are wearing heavily, find elevated Nickel as well and you can have a fair degree of confidence your bearings are shot and losing material. In large machinery they use it to extend oil life, because the cost of refilling a couple hundred or more gallons of oil (regardless of spread across a fleet or a single machine) is quite significant. In vehicles like ours it is more of a record to not only prove you're doing what you say you are, but to help you prepare for potential catastrophe.

All this does say that doing oil analysis more frequently than every change will provide better wear analysis, but that goes into the balance for personal vehicles where benefit starts to lose out to cost.

(e) For me personally, it's also about ensuring that I keep my Diesel JL running as well as possible for as long as possible. Since they've discontinued the Diesel option and probably won't bring it back, I can't just rely on being able to replace it in the future. For me the only other option I would even consider would be full electric which is only just starting to get real attention on energy storage density. It's bad enough that it even gives me a very small amount of real anxiety daily driving my Jeep that some moron could ruin it out of their own stupidity or selfishness.

 

[OrneryBear]

No; unless something has changed very recently. They also do not use many of the latest ASTM testing methodologies, they do not use gas chromatography for fuel dilution testing--their test is subjective at best since it observes a flash at a particular time in the test sequence. Last, but not least, they are more expensive that labs like Polaris/Horizon who are fully ISO certified and do use the latest ASTM methods.

ISO 9001 is not a quality standard. It just means they have a process standard that they wrote and follow and track. It could be mean nearly nothing depending on how they wrote their iso manual. It could literally mean they just have a paper trail, and might not have any quality assurance written in. Without seeing their actual ISO manual (or them sharing their ISO process), you don't know what value it has to their company or their customers.

 

[CarbonSteel]

ISO 9001 is not a quality standard. It just means they have a process standard that they wrote and follow and track. It could be mean nearly nothing depending on how they wrote their iso manual. It could literally mean they just have a paper trail, and might not have any quality assurance written in. Without seeing their actual ISO manual (or them sharing their ISO process), you don't know what value it has to their company or their customers.

Well...it is not ISO 9001; it is ISO 17025 which enables laboratories to demonstrate that they operate competently and generate valid results.

 

[OrneryBear]

Well...it is not ISO 9001; it is ISO 17025 which enables laboratories to demonstrate that they operate competently and generate valid results.

ahhh gotcha, that clarifies things then.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Here is the best reason to perform UOAs.

• From UOA #1 to UOA #12, potassium never rose above 3PPM
  • Some additive packs in oil could have some potassium (or sodium) so this could be entirely normal depending on the oil brand/type.
• Starting with UOA #13 the potassium level (indicating a potential coolant leak) rose to 6PPM
  • This is a yellow flag because prior to that the highest reading was 3PPM
• Then dropped in UOA #14 to 3PPM
  • Since it dropped, it could have been an anomaly, but more monitoring is prudent
• Remained steady in UOA #15 at 3PPM
  • Holding steady so it may be an anomaly, but again more monitoring is prudent
• Starting with UOA #16, it spiked again to 7PPM
  • Another yellow flag
• Continued to increase in UOA #17 (13PPM)
  • This indicates there is a potential coolant leak
• Substantially increasing in UOA #18 (66PPM)
  • This positively confirms there is a coolant leak and coolant is entering the oil.
• OCI was reduced in UOA #19 to monitor and the number worsened on a potassium PPM per mile basis--e.g. I was going less miles per PPM of potassium which confirmed the leak was getting worse.
• I replaced the oil cooler shortly afterwards and ran a short OC without testing and another with a test. It will take a while for the residual potassium to work its way out of the system (quite a bit spilled out when I pulled the oil cooler housing and made its way into the engine).
• Monitoring is not only prudent but necessary.

The point of sharing this is to say:

1. Had I not run any UOAs I would not have known about the leak until it may have been too late.
2. Had I spot checked at UOA #14 or #15, I would have likely thought all is well and likely not spot checked again.
3. The leak was caught long before any other method would have detected it.
4. Having this many UOAs for the engine positively allows me to perform trending and to see and act upon discrepancies.
5. 3.6L engine owners--test your oil at some point to see where you stand. I could smell oil and knew I had a leak, but did not know that I also had a coolant leak until confirmed by UOA testing.
6. I am not saying that any of you should follow my lead and test every OC. That is just something that I have done for years. We all have vices that we spend money on--this one is mine.

 

[Wild American Off-Road]

@CarbonSteel just curious how you know the Amsoil kit is polaris? Not doubting you, you obviously know your stuff, it just doesn't say it anywhere that I have seen. Do they give you a summary statement like blackstone to help the layperson understand the results? I have found that to be helpful in viewing others reports. Thanks!

 

[CarbonSteel]

@CarbonSteel just curious how you know the Amsoil kit is polaris? Not doubting you, you obviously know your stuff, it just doesn't say it anywhere that I have seen. Do they give you a summary statement like blackstone to help the layperson understand the results? I have found that to be helpful in viewing others reports. Thanks!

I have performed more than 40 UOAs with the Amsoil kit (both diesel and gasoline) and it is 100% Polaris/Horizon. Look at the picture of the document on the Amsoil site for the kit and you can see Oil Analyzers on it with a Houston address:

Oil Analyzers Lab, 10910 W. Sam Houston Parkway North, Suite 700 Houston, TX 77064

Also in their document here - https://www.oaitesting.com/images/docs/Oil-Analyzers-User-Guide.pdf you can see they have a location in Houston. This document gives a good explanation of how to interpret the results.

On the Polaris site they also have a location in Houston - https://polarislabs.com/whypolaris/

Now, when I log into my account, I see this:

Lastly, look at Polaris' Scope of Accreditation and you will see the same Houston address on page 3:

POLARIS Laboratories, LLC 10910 W. Sam Houston Parkway North, Suite 700 Houston, TX 77064


They do provide report explanations and call out issues when they appear.

Hope this helps!

 

[Wild American Off-Road]

I have performed more than 40 UOAs with the Amsoil kit (both diesel and gasoline) and it is 100% Polaris/Horizon. Look at the picture of the document on the Amsoil site for the kit and you can see Oil Analyzers on it with a Houston address:

Oil Analyzers Lab, 10910 W. Sam Houston Parkway North, Suite 700 Houston, TX 77064

Also in their document here - https://www.oaitesting.com/images/docs/Oil-Analyzers-User-Guide.pdf you can see they have a location in Houston. This document gives a good explanation of how to interpret the results.

On the Polaris site they also have a location in Houston - https://polarislabs.com/whypolaris/

Now, when I log into my account, I see this:

Lastly, look at Polaris' Scope of Accreditation and you will see the same Houston address on page 3:

POLARIS Laboratories, LLC 10910 W. Sam Houston Parkway North, Suite 700 Houston, TX 77064


They do provide report explanations and call out issues when they appear.

Hope this helps!

fantastic. Thanks!

 

[Upnarms]

So I ordered a test kit, because i want to make sure I don't have coolant leaking into my oil. My coolant reservoir loses a half inch or so every few months. Not sure if that is happening from something else, but need to rule out.

When you take a sample, what is the best way? Do you collect it mid stream when draining?

Thanks

 

[driventoadventure]

So I ordered a test kit, because i want to make sure I don't have coolant leaking into my oil. My coolant reservoir loses a half inch or so every few months. Not sure if that is happening from something else, but need to rule out.

When you take a sample, what is the best way? Do you collect it mid stream when draining?

Thanks

I did it after about 15-20 seconds of draining, to try and get a "mid-stream" sample.

 

[Heimkehr]

When you take a sample, what is the best way? Do you collect it mid stream when draining?

Yes, collect it mid-stream, exactly the same as how you provide a sample when at your annual urology appointment. Voice of, um, experience.

 

[Pistoloni]

So I ordered a test kit, because i want to make sure I don't have coolant leaking into my oil. My coolant reservoir loses a half inch or so every few months. Not sure if that is happening from something else, but need to rule out.

When you take a sample, what is the best way? Do you collect it mid stream when draining?

Thanks

Same thing happens to my reservoir..

 

[Upnarms]

Same thing happens to my reservoir..

Well that's comforting to know-that we all have the same issues. ?. The past few weeks I've noticed an engine "rattle" for lack of a better term at 3000 rpms. Come to find out, many others have the same. The forums are grief-sharing support groups for us jeepers.

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