Officially done.

[Jeep&dogs]

I'm on my 6th new Wrangler in 15 years and have never experienced a death wobble. While I'm sure that they happen, my guess would be that the chances are extremely slim. Jumping to another Wrangler will solve your problem. Conversely jumping to a Bronco may just open the door to a new set of issues.

I have considered this, at one point I had placed an order for a 392. But between the corrosion issues and steering issues that they continue to have I never took delivery of it and let the dealership sell it when it came in. You can literally drive three of these things on the dealer lot and be lucky to find two that drive alike.

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[DKD]

I'm done too ( with this tread)
Its making my head spin.

This is why I ordered a JLUR with XR, hoping to avoid this nightmare.

On a more serious note, I just installed a hemi out of a Hell cat, added 37's, and a 2.5 lift on my 22 Rubicon, now my gas mileage has plummeted . I can't figure it out. Tried every thing, even replaced the fuel filter. Any thoughts.

 

[Roky]

Sorry to hear it Jim…..stay in touch… best of luck brother.…..

 

[Tharris]

Well after 2 years of fighting with this thing, 1/2 a dozen gear boxes, track bars, stabilizers, tires,wheels, control arms. I’m done fighting it. Yesterday doing 70 on the expressway I hit a small bump, Jeep literally went across 3 lanes of rush hour traffic, over the curb and into the grass shoulder. Couldn’t get the death wobble to stop. Im shocked I didn’t hit anyone or cause a major accident,I’m done. I’m going to see what I can get for it the way it sits, if I can’t get any decent offers there will be a ton of parts listed in the for sale area. I have never fought a Jeep this much in my life.
I hate to say it but there will be a new Bronco sitting in my garage before long.

Are you in cedar lake CA? I may be able to help. I’ve solved death wobble on quite a few jeeps.

 

[Jeep&dogs]

Are you in cedar lake CA? I may be able to help. I’ve solved death wobble on quite a few jeeps.

Indiana

 

[Jeep&dogs]

Sorry to hear it Jim…..stay in touch… best of luck brother.…..

You of all people know what I have done to this thing. I can honestly say I feel I have done more than most would have! Lol!

 

[Roky]

You of all people know what I have done to this thing. I can honestly say I feel I have done more than most would have! Lol!

Absolutely…… I know you went down swinging……lol..

 

[Jeep&dogs]

Absolutely…… I know you went down swinging……lol..

It just got to the point it’s not fun anymore. I started a new pro touring build on a 65 Malibu. That’s going to consume most of my time. I actually stuck the Jeep in the back shop today and covered it. When spring comes I will decide what to do, burn it or sell it. Lol!

 

[ChuckQue]

I have the brace and have also fabbed a brace that spread the load of the box further along the rail. That did make an improvement. In my opinion the rail twists when the load is applied from the track bar. You actually need some to tie the two rails together like they did on the XJ brace. There is just not enough room to do that on the JL.
And the anti flop washers do actually make a difference, but if you talk to some of the experts on here they are smoke and mirrors,they are used all the time on rod ends with heim joints. The Rusty’s steering system I have on the Jeep actually comes with them.

Thanks for contributing with an intelligent reply and not a typical smart ass answer.

Ahhh ok. Yeah the XJ track bar brace from the same company ties the rails together. Between that, the sector shaft brace and then the winch bumper I had it made the front end super ridged. Which is probably why I never had an issue with cracked plastic reservoirs on the cheap Spectra radiator like others

There has to be a way to accomplish what you’re looking for. Man, I wish I had mine so I could look at it and brainstorm.

 

[Rustynail11]

Well I wasn’t really coming on here to announce my departure. I really don’t even come on here much anymore because the forum has really turned into a place where most of the people really don’t have any idea what they are talking about. Several years back when the Jl first came out and the forum was started I was actually pretty heavily active along with a few others. Unfortunately only a handful of the people still even bother to come on here that really know what they are talking about.

That handful that do know what I have done to the Jeep and everything that was done to correct it over the last few years and have also been involved in many conversations on what to try to fix it. Those are the people I was actually explaining I have officially had enough of this thing, not the majority of what this forum has turned into.

" Well I wasn’t really coming on here to announce my departure" says the man that came here and announced his departure in a thread titled "Officially Done" and then said he was getting a Bronco

 

[Themistocles]

Honestly I had the Jeep on a Car-O- Liner digital frame machine. We squared the axles to the centerline of the Jeep. We were within 2 MM of everything being perfectly aligned. Because of the corse threads on the Clayton arms we needed 1/4 turn to get it perfect but it’s not possible with them. The factory specs for the frames are 3-5 MM and I have seen them as far out as 12 MM on the control arm mounts.But yes this is absolutely a contributing factor to some of the issues that people experience on these things.

As others have said, sorry you are having to deal with this, but also trying to learn from your experiences / efforts. I have a very similarly set up JLURD. Clayton 2.5, Accutune Fox DSC 2.5s, Reid knuckles, Dynatrac ball joints, cast steering box, Steer Smarts brace, Fox ATS. Don't have the 2.5 ton (yet) or PSC (probably not ever).

So, lots of folks get DW. I assume that the reason so many folks default to ball joints and track bar is that when most folks replace ball joints and track bar it fixes the problem. I just had the beginning of DW and the addition of the Reid knuckles, Dynatrac ball joints, and Steer Smarts brace (along with retorquing everything), and alignment seemed to do the trick. Two weeks of driving since I did it and the places that caused DW now dont and steering rock solid.

However, I concur that DW is probably a system thing vs a single cause (in most cases). My question, looking for your thoughts, is why does a new track bar and ball joints fix it on most jeeps and not fix it on others. The list of what you have done is amazing...and scary because no way in h@#& would I be able to even begin to duplicate what you have done...and you weren't able to fix it. If it is frame flex that is at the root of this, then all JLs should be experiencing it and the fixes that the majority of people say fixed it, shouldn't have. I think we can say all JLs are prone to DW...but not all get it. Why? You confirmed frame tolerances...yours is good. So, what would be different enough between same model and year vehicles to cause one to have an unrepairable problem and another to respond to a fairly simply fix?

Thoughts?

 

[gutowscr471]

I think the DW is part of life with solid front axle vehicle. My 2018 F250 had this issue, so does my 2021 F350 Dually. Have less than 5k miles on Dually and it happened a few times. Ford offers a life long stabilizer replacement but won’t fix it. Just part of life. That being said, have not experienced this on my JLUS yet.

 

[TheBirdie72]

I'm on my 6th new Wrangler in 15 years and have never experienced a death wobble. While I'm sure that they happen, my guess would be that the chances are extremely slim. Jumping to another Wrangler will solve your problem. Conversely jumping to a Bronco may just open the door to a new set of issues.

Six new wranglers in only 15 years?!

Do you only lease?

 

[Jeep&dogs]

As others have said, sorry you are having to deal with this, but also trying to learn from your experiences / efforts. I have a very similarly set up JLURD. Clayton 2.5, Accutune Fox DSC 2.5s, Reid knuckles, Dynatrac ball joints, cast steering box, Steer Smarts brace, Fox ATS. Don't have the 2.5 ton (yet) or PSC (probably not ever).

So, lots of folks get DW. I assume that the reason so many folks default to ball joints and track bar is that when most folks replace ball joints and track bar it fixes the problem. I just had the beginning of DW and the addition of the Reid knuckles, Dynatrac ball joints, and Steer Smarts brace (along with retorquing everything), and alignment seemed to do the trick. Two weeks of driving since I did it and the places that caused DW now dont and steering rock solid.

However, I concur that DW is probably a system thing vs a single cause (in most cases). My question, looking for your thoughts, is why does a new track bar and ball joints fix it on most jeeps and not fix it on others. The list of what you have done is amazing...and scary because no way in h@#& would I be able to even begin to duplicate what you have done...and you weren't able to fix it. If it is frame flex that is at the root of this, then all JLs should be experiencing it and the fixes that the majority of people say fixed it, shouldn't have. I think we can say all JLs are prone to DW...but not all get it. Why? You confirmed frame tolerances...yours is good. So, what would be different enough between same model and year vehicles to cause one to have an unrepairable problem and another to respond to a fairly simply fix?

Thoughts?

Honestly? The JL frame is made at I believe 3 different factories, I have measured several of these personally and have access to 850+ shops that do collision repair databases. The frames are all over the place. The spec for the over center adjustments on the boxes is +/- 12” lbs. that’s actually huge. The JK was +/- 4-5 if I remember correctly, it’s been a while and honestly I don’t feel like looking up the exact spec.

The over center adjustment is the setting on the top of the box…..the one everyone usually says to “adjust” and the steering will get better. Well it does IF you set it properly but there is ZERO chance you set it properly IN the vehicle. You actually need to set the input shaft tension before you even touch that. The input shat is normally why the over center adjustments are not on spec.

The boxes are all set by hand during final assembly, you can put 10 of them on a bench and would be lucky to get two that are set the same. There is a term called tolerance stacking, I honestly believe the reason why some have issues and others don’t is because they have the right group of parts so to speak. If that makes any sense.

DW is a harmonic, plain and simple, if you don’t allow the harmonic to start it won’t happen. To stop the harmonic sometimes you need something that is more solid, and sometimes softer, the steering damper is a perfect example of this. They actually made a stiffer version and then a softer version at one point of the recalls. I have a video in one of my old threads that shows the deflection of the Lt. Front rail when you turn the Jeep to the right with the Rt wheel blocked. The rail twisted almost 1/4” with a dial indicator. I have seen track bars move 1/16 of an inch and cause it. When you hit a bump with the Rt. Front it drives the track bar up and over to the Lt. If the frame moves 1/4” that’s like the track bar moving that much.

The owner of steer smarts shared a video with me a while back and it was a GoPro view of the front axle assembly when hitting a 2x4 in the street I believe it was. The tire rod and drag link went into crazy harmonics. When they played with the tow setup they found 1/16 toe out absorbed the harmonic. That’s why they recommended toe out which goes against EVERY recommended setting on just about every car on the planet, everyone thought they were nuts. But it was what it took to eliminate the harmonic.

I think you just need to figure out the exact combination on the particular Jeep you are working on. Sometimes you just get lucky and it happens. After everything I have done, tried, and witnessed anyone that says they can 100% fix it on a JL because theirs doesn’t is in the lucky category. I was 100% in that same camp prior to this Jeep.

 

[Pig-Pen]

Should have put it into a tree when you ran off the road.

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