Officially done.

[Jeep&dogs]

….So…. We are to understand that Jeep / Stellantis Engineers have been sending you free (R&D) parts to fix a problem you encountered after modding your Jeep from factory specifications because…. you’re a really smart guy with an impressive resume who can’t fix the problems his mods have caused to his Jeep?

And to be clear they were not R&D boxes they were the first run of the second revision of the cast iron boxes. They were being installed at the dealers but they also were being allocated monthly to the dealers so they were not readily available. There are actually production variations in the assembly tolerance of the boxes and that’s pretty well known. The ability to bench test the boxes and decide which box had the tightest tolerance would be a better way to describe it. The other two boxes were returned and were likely installed in a different Jeep. Two boxes were within 1Ft. Lb of each other on the high end of the acceptable range and the third was at the minimum of the range.

I am sure one box drove just fine in the vehicle it was installed in, I’m betting the second one did not.

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[Matanzas]

This thread has mud in the tires, measures from center, hypotheticals, vehicle troubleshooting, and challenging /justifying the mechanic’s resume - makes me want to watch My Cousin Vinny again

 

[ChuckQue]

If you have ever actually seen the frames on these Jl’s and how they flex near the steering box I would guarantee that is the cause of the the problem on these things.

Probably a stupid question, but, have you tried some sort of spacer or frame stiffener in that area? I ask because coming from the XJ community, I know that is a common issue with the XJ unibody “frame”. The steering box would sometimes tear itself out of the mounting point because of the flex over time causing fractures. The common preventative measure was a backing spacer that spread the load out over the area and gave a stiff mounting point, or the front end weld on frame plating people would do. All those would eliminate the flex.

I did the spacer combined with a sector shaft brace. It was a night and day difference:

https://ironman4x4fab.com/collections/jeep-cherokee-84-01/products/xj-steering-box-spacer

https://ironman4x4fab.com/collections/jeep-cherokee-84-01/products/xj-steering-box-brace

Based on your experience level you mentioned above, along with all the other modifications and things you’ve done/tried to alleviate the issue, perhaps something in the vein of those links above may be the fix?

Something else to consider: when I swapped my stock XJ steering up to a 1 ton setup, I developed severe death wobble after a month once everything was broken in. My mechanic (old Jeep dealer mechanic) and I tracked it down to the tie rod rolling. I shit you not the fix was a set of these:

https://www.stinkyfab.com/collections/xj-steering/products/sfr-roll-stopper-tie-rod-end-boot

A $10 part. After that, it tracked perfect and had zero bump steer or death wobble, no matter how many potholes, railroad tracks, etc I’d hit.

Just stuff to consider. Hopefully it helps. I could be way off base since I am brand new to the modern Jeep world, I only have a boatload of experience with XJ’s.

 

[Jeep&dogs]

Probably a stupid question, but, have you tried some sort of spacer or frame stiffener in that area? I ask because coming from the XJ community, I know that is a common issue with the XJ unibody “frame”. The steering box would sometimes tear itself out of the mounting point because of the flex over time causing fractures. The common preventative measure was a backing spacer that spread the load out over the area and gave a stiff mounting point, or the front end weld on frame plating people would do. All those would eliminate the flex.

I did the spacer combined with a sector shaft brace. It was a night and day difference:

https://ironman4x4fab.com/collections/jeep-cherokee-84-01/products/xj-steering-box-spacer

https://ironman4x4fab.com/collections/jeep-cherokee-84-01/products/xj-steering-box-brace

Based on your experience level you mentioned above, along with all the other modifications and things you’ve done/tried to alleviate the issue, perhaps something in the vein of those links above may be the fix?

Something else to consider: when I swapped my stock XJ steering up to a 1 ton setup, I developed severe death wobble after a month once everything was broken in. My mechanic (old Jeep dealer mechanic) and I tracked it down to the tie rod rolling. I shit you not the fix was a set of these:

https://www.stinkyfab.com/collections/xj-steering/products/sfr-roll-stopper-tie-rod-end-boot

A $10 part. After that, it tracked perfect and had zero bump steer or death wobble, no matter how many potholes, railroad tracks, etc I’d hit.

Just stuff to consider. Hopefully it helps. I could be way off base since I am brand new to the modern Jeep world, I only have a boatload of experience with XJ’s.

I have the brace and have also fabbed a brace that spread the load of the box further along the rail. That did make an improvement. In my opinion the rail twists when the load is applied from the track bar. You actually need some to tie the two rails together like they did on the XJ brace. There is just not enough room to do that on the JL.
And the anti flop washers do actually make a difference, but if you talk to some of the experts on here they are smoke and mirrors,they are used all the time on rod ends with heim joints. The Rusty’s steering system I have on the Jeep actually comes with them.

Thanks for contributing with an intelligent reply and not a typical smart ass answer. ?

 

[fuelfox4949]

This has been 1 great read...

he says "he is done fighting with this thing and will have a bronco in his driveway,"
then says "Well I wasn’t really coming on here to announce my departure"
then fires off his big boy resume' and fancy connections to "smart asses"

its like reading the diary of a teenage girl high school drama queen.

1 big question is why didn't you bring it back to jeep for them to fix after you claim the jeep was like that when Stock? i.e post 32
or were you doing research for Stellantis Engineers?

 

[Jeep&dogs]

This has been 1 great read...

he says "he is done fighting with this thing and will have a bronco in his driveway,"
then says "Well I wasn’t really coming on here to announce my departure"
then fires off his big boy resume' and fancy connections to "smart asses"

its like reading the diary of a teenage girl high school drama queen.

1 big question is why didn't you bring it back to jeep for them to fix after you claim the jeep was like that when Stock? i.e post 32
or were you doing research for Stellantis Engineers?

Read a few of my other posts. Jeep has been back several times, and has had all the factory solutions completed.

 

[fuelfox4949]

Read a few of my other posts. Jeep has been back several times, and has had all the factory solutions completed.

if the factory fixes were applied and it did not fix the issue, when stock why didnt you have jeep buy it back and get a different 1?

 

[Jeep&dogs]

if the factory fixes were applied and it did not fix the issue, when stock why didnt you have jeep buy it back and get a different 1?

It was offered, the Jeep didn’t quite have 10k on it yet. There were also many other non suspension mods done to it by that point. They already discontinued the Orange by then and I could not get a orange replacement. At that point in the game I was of the same opinion as 99% of the other people..how hard could this be to fix. I hade done it dozens of times on Tj’s and Lj’s. If you actually go through and look what has been done to this thing and who has been involved during the process you actually see there is more to the story than this thread.

 

[BLU392]

Sorry for your trouble but the fact is you hacked up your suspension and now can’t figure out how to fix it. you’re not fighting the Jeep you’re fighting your mods. Don‘t blame the jeep

 

[Jeep&dogs]

It was offered, the Jeep didn’t quite have 10k on it yet. There were also many other non suspension mods done to it by that point. They already discontinued the Orange by then and I could not get a orange replacement. At that point in the game I was of the same opinion as 99% of the other people..how hard could this be to fix. I hade done it dozens of times on Tj’s and Lj’s. If you actually go through and look what has been done to this thing and who has been involved during the process you actually see there is more to the story than this thread.

Thanks for the intelligent response, already looked at that site and determined it’s probably the best solution. You may want to keep that bookmarked for yourself for future reference. Never know

 

[Jeep&dogs]

Sorry for your trouble but the fact is you hacked up your suspension and now can’t figure out how to fix it. you’re not fighting the Jeep you’re fighting your mods. Don‘t blame the jeep

Yup that’s it. ?

 

[58Willys]

Jeeps&dogs - sorry to hear about your frustrations. You seem to very knowledgeable. Have you ever had a full frame/axle alignment check done? I think sometimes you can get tolerance stacking issues which can never be fixed In any practical manner.

Say your frame or control arms mounts are slightly skewed. This can set up tension, which given the right opportunity unleashes wobbles that can be compounded by frame flex, steering gear slop, slightly flex bushings etc… No way to cure other than a total dismantle and rebuild.

Best of luck.

 

[rickinAZ]

I'm on my 6th new Wrangler in 15 years and have never experienced a death wobble. While I'm sure that they happen, my guess would be that the chances are extremely slim. Jumping to another Wrangler will solve your problem. Conversely jumping to a Bronco may just open the door to a new set of issues.

 

[Opus]

This "farewell tour" is starting to reach Cher-like proportions...

 

[Jeep&dogs]

Jeeps&dogs - sorry to hear about your frustrations. You seem to very knowledgeable. Have you ever had a full frame/axle alignment check done? I think sometimes you can get tolerance stacking issues which can never be fixed In any practical manner.

Say your frame or control arms mounts are slightly skewed. This can set up tension, which given the right opportunity unleashes wobbles that can be compounded by frame flex, steering gear slop, slightly flex bushings etc… No way to cure other than a total dismantle and rebuild.

Best of luck.

Honestly I had the Jeep on a Car-O- Liner digital frame machine. We squared the axles to the centerline of the Jeep. We were within 2 MM of everything being perfectly aligned. Because of the corse threads on the Clayton arms we needed 1/4 turn to get it perfect but it’s not possible with them. The factory specs for the frames are 3-5 MM and I have seen them as far out as 12 MM on the control arm mounts.But yes this is absolutely a contributing factor to some of the issues that people experience on these things.

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