New EPA Rules

[au176]

You're the first person I've heard complain about the 500 mile warning being too short. That's a lot of passed gas stations / parts stores unless you're heading to the Arctic.

Or truck stops. DEF users can bypass all that plastic and cardboard packaging by filling at a DEF pump. It's also a LOT cheaper to buy it from the pump.

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[Terrymo]

Honestly, why does it even matter?

Not to me I just have a weird sense of humor. My start stop has been permanently disabled after the first couple of ownership. Mandated, not mandated, you’re dumb if you won’t just push a button, or you’re dumb if you won’t install something to remedy it. It’s all just amusing to me.

 

[Ratbert]

You misread my post. The software implementation was mandated/required, if you are going to use ESS to earn the tax credits. The inclusion of ESS in the vehicle was NOT mandated.

This is a legitimate question: why are you getting hung up over the term "mandate" while ignoring the main point of my post:

"Semantics aside, ESS implementation is a direct result of EPA actions, and now new EPA actions may reverse that."

It is completely illogical and distracts from the actual topic. I am genuinely curious why you are getting so hung up on it.

Because people keep repeating the false claim that ESS was mandated.

It's like people wanting to get a child tax credit complaining that having a kid is being mandated by the government.

Now you're moving the goalpost by listing the specific requirements to get that tax credit. Yes, there are specific mandatory requirements that are required to get the non-mandated tax credit. That doesn't magically make ESS mandatory.

 

[GabeBoyTheGreat]

Because people keep repeating the false claim that ESS was mandated.

I am asking why this matters so much to you. For 99% of people, they don't care whether is was "mandated" or not. The point is that the annoyance of ESS is a direct result of rules imposed by the EPA, so if the EPA changes their rules/requirements, perhaps ESS will go away or be less annoying.

Whether or not the ESS is "mandated" doesn't change the conversation. That is why I am curious why you get so hung up on it.

 

[Ratbert]

Or truck stops. DEF users can bypass all that plastic and cardboard packaging by filling at a DEF pump. It's also a LOT cheaper to buy it from the pump.

Agreed. It's uncommon for the easier / simpler approach to also be significantly cheaper.

 

[au176]

Honestly, why does it even matter?

Because using incorrect terminology, as you correctly stated, "distracts from the actual topic." Maybe if people used the correct term, these posts wouldn't be bogged down by semantics. That's why it matters, at least IMHO...

 

[Ratbert]

500 miles is a best-case estimate.

• When you're heading up steep hills or a pass that value can easily drop to 50-100 miles per climb (depending on where you're driving) in the matter of 10s of miles.
• What happens when those gas stations aren't open (say you're getting home late from a trail or on a long leg driving through a desert for instance)?
• Also, what about "diesel deserts" (I was in an area this past year where there were zero open diesel stations for 100~150 miles).

Yep, you have to plan ahead for fuel and DEF in those situations.

 

[GabeBoyTheGreat]

Because using incorrect terminology, as you correctly stated, "distracts from the actual topic." Maybe if people used the correct term, these posts wouldn't be bogged down by semantics. That's why it matters, at least IMHO...

Fair enough. Thanks for the explanation.

 

[Terrymo]

Because using incorrect terminology, as you correctly stated, "distracts from the actual topic." Maybe if people used the correct term, these posts wouldn't be bogged down by semantics. That's why it matters, at least IMHO...

Plus unless you are just being a shit stirrer (like me) and it doesn’t really matter to you. Why waste your time repeating it doesn’t matter. It must matter just a wee bit.

 

[Ratbert]

I am asking why this matters so much to you. For 99% of people, they don't care whether is was "mandated" or not. The point is that the annoyance of ESS is a direct result of rules imposed by the EPA, so if the EPA changes their rules/requirements, perhaps ESS will go away or be less annoying.

Whether or not the ESS is "mandated" doesn't change the conversation. That is why I am curious why you get so hung up on it.

Whatever media that is feeding their brain is convincing them that it was mandated. I'm merely correcting that erroneous misconception.

If they said that Earth was flat I'd correct that too.

 

[grimmjeeper]

Just a point of info- my wife's 25 Outback has the start-stop, which I shut off when I drive it. (I hate that starter noise & feel when I take my foot off the brake.) A 24 Suburban that I rented for a roadtrip had it. My 21 eTorque has the "better" version, which I actually don't mind. I'm not saying that all vehicles do have it, but to reduce average "Fleet mileage", I'm surprised when they don't.

Maybe Mazda's average fleet mileage is so good, they don't need ESS to meet the standards?

There is a stop-start eliminator for the Subarus. I have one in mine.

 

[au176]

There is a stop-start eliminator for the Subarus. I have one in mine.

I hear you. My wife doesn't care, and I don't drive it very much. More money to put into the Jeep! LOL!

 

[ngie]

Just wait until a Gavin Newsome type moves into The People's House and outlaws diesel. Along with gas operated lawn mowers, weed trimmers, leaf blowers, plastic straws (nevermind, forget that last one).

Fun story from a teacher I just took a class from: they got anemic hypoxia from their dumbass landlord who was using a pressure washer which was exhausting right next to an open window to the lower unit. Junk like you described above will obviously cause you to get loopy, pass out, and kill you if you're exposed to enough of it.

I'm personally ok with lawmakers mandating that gas blowers, etc, produce less CO/CO2 (why is that never an option that manufacturers seems to follow?), or outlaw them entirely (if the manufacturers won't do their job and actually make their products pollute less/make them more efficient). Government isn't always the way, but the EPA has helped out with clean air/water (remember leaded gasoline? Pepperidge Farms remembers...). There's just too much bloody process and dumb application of standards, instead of doing it properly/on a more case-by-case basis.

Sidenote: newer isn't automatically more energy conservative. Take for example, my printer: it's 15 years old now and it sucks down less current (both at idle and when in use) than the equivalent model does this day and age. Ain't that a kick in the pants?

PS I don't trust this admin (or the last one for this matter, but especially this one) to actually do this in a way that benefits the consumer, or in a way that wasn't part of some kind of quid pro quo deal with the oil industry/auto industry. Pretty sure the new lowered standards benefit big polluters more than help/damage small consumers like us.

 

[ngie]

Or truck stops. DEF users can bypass all that plastic and cardboard packaging by filling at a DEF pump. It's also a LOT cheaper to buy it from the pump.

Holy smokes -- learned something new today! CFN seems to be the only game in town [really] in my state, but that's good to know for later/when I'm running into town, since there are a few stations that have DEF pumps.

 

[ngie]

Not to me I just have a weird sense of humor. My start stop has been permanently disabled after the first couple of ownership. Mandated, not mandated, you’re dumb if you won’t just push a button, or you’re dumb if you won’t install something to remedy it. It’s all just amusing to me.

Whatever floats your boat, is what I say. If I'm in town with a ton of stoplights, I turn it on. if I'm on the highway, longer stretches of road, or in a town with a ton of annoying stop signs, I'll consider turning the silly thing off.

I understand the desire to turn it off in general, but in this case, as others have pointed out, it wasn't a "mandate": it was an EPA endorsed tax rebate that a bunch of manufacturers signed on to because it helped their profit margins. Some of the tax rebates and regulations are silly; in this case a bunch of companies decided to add it in everywhere since it helped their bottom line. If anything, thank companies like Stellantis for choosing to do this to all their vehicles -- don't blame the EPA.

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