New EPA Rules

[Dusty Dude]

Yea I sit here reading this stuff thinking "did nobody grow up back in the days when every other truck or bus had a screaming jimmy barfing out black smoke every time it took off from a red light?"

Those things were noisy and stinky and polluted the air like crazy. Nothing like getting crop dusted by the city bus.

Why on EARTH would anyone want to go back to that?

Why is it every time someone says they want to have a simpler vehicle that someone else has to accuse them of wanting to go back to the 50’s/60’s technology?

Diesel/gas vehicles were doing just fine until 2005/6 when the EPA went nuts with their ridiculous regulations.

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[driventoadventure]

Why is it every time someone says they want to have a simpler vehicle that someone else has to accuse them of wanting to go back to the 50’s/60’s technology?

Diesel/gas vehicles were doing just fine until 2005/6 when the EPA went nuts with their ridiculous regulations.

Because the problem is much more complex than "it's different than it used to be." First, as a person who loved their 6.0, the emissions systems used today are demonstrably better on the vehicles and more effective at reducing the most harmful pollutants of these vehicles while allowing modern engines to operate much better than previous engines. Realistically, the EGR systems of that time could be eliminated (although they do provide at least some benefit to the operation of the engine) without increasing emissions - and I would say that the EGRs are probably the worst of the systems as far as problematic design. It is because of these modern emissions systems that modern Diesels can put out much more power, utilizing more of the available energy from their fuel, and in many cases without using as much fuel as previous engines. The fact that people misuse them is more contributory to why the emissions systems fail than the complexity of the systems (you need only look at commercial use to see the proof in that statement) and the engines without them typically operate worse. They are also the ones that "roll coal" and are objectively bad for everyone around are why these engines and their users develop a bad reputation regardless of the fact that they are a demonstrably better engine for the job when used as they are designed (and as the technology dictates) to be used. There is no good-faith argument that modern emissions systems do not have benefits - but you rarely see the people who say these systems suck admitting the benefits of the systems.

 

[ALeeL]

Diesels should be regulated to working vehicles over a certain tonnage. Putting them in generic daily vehicles is a massive misappropriation of design function.

The amount of people that buy the biggest truck they can afford, then never use it for anything remotely close to its intended purpose, is too damn high!


Then again, turning a literal brick on wheels into a plugin hybrid to be more "economic/green" was also a questionable decision.

I could not disagree more. Drive a 4 banger BMW diesel that is just as quick as a V6 Challenger, can take twisties as nearly as fast as my old vette, has more torque below 3,000 rpm than many V8s, and still gets 45+ mpg at the end of every tank. My diesel Jeep is able to be out on trails all day only using a fraction of the fuel my friends do, even the 4Xe guys. Last trip to Big Bend, they had to fill up three times the whole trip that I did not have to. That meant I did not have to worry about carrying fuel like they did either. My 550rwhp/1,200rwtq Cummins is just fun to drive with it's effortless acceleration without needing to scream at high rpms.

As far as vehicles not being used for their intended purpose, one can say the same about any vehicle. Most Mustangs, Challengers, and Camaros never get taken to the track. Neither do most sport bikes. Most Jeeps or off road vehicles never see dirt 99% of the time. Most people have four seater cars or SUV's just to have one person in it 90% of the time. Many people also buy the biggest gas engine possible when a 4 banger or base engine will do.

 

[Tr4ckD4ys]

I could not disagree more. Drive a 4 banger BMW diesel that is just as quick as a V6 Challenger, can take twisties as nearly as fast as my old vette, has more torque below 3,000 rpm than many V8s, and still gets 45+ mpg at the end of every tank. My diesel Jeep is able to be out on trails all day only using a fraction of the fuel my friends do, even the 4Xe guys. Last trip to Big Bend, they had to fill up three times the whole trip that I did not have to. That meant I did not have to worry about carrying fuel like they did either. My 550rwhp/1,200rwtq Cummins is just fun to drive with it's effortless acceleration without needing to scream at high rpms.

As far as vehicles not being used for their intended purpose, one can say the same about any vehicle. Most Mustangs, Challengers, and Camaros never get taken to the track. Neither do most sport bikes. Most Jeeps or off road vehicles never see dirt 99% of the time. Most people have four seater cars or SUV's just to have one person in it 90% of the time. Many people also buy the biggest gas engine possible when a 4 banger or base engine will do.

Wait. Are you stalking me! How do you know so much about me?

 

[alphawolff]

I could not disagree more. Drive a 4 banger BMW diesel that is just as quick as a V6 Challenger, can take twisties as nearly as fast as my old vette, has more torque below 3,000 rpm than many V8s, and still gets 45+ mpg at the end of every tank. My diesel Jeep is able to be out on trails all day only using a fraction of the fuel my friends do, even the 4Xe guys. Last trip to Big Bend, they had to fill up three times the whole trip that I did not have to. That meant I did not have to worry about carrying fuel like they did either. My 550rwhp/1,200rwtq Cummins is just fun to drive with it's effortless acceleration without needing to scream at high rpms.

As far as vehicles not being used for their intended purpose, one can say the same about any vehicle. Most Mustangs, Challengers, and Camaros never get taken to the track. Neither do most sport bikes. Most Jeeps or off road vehicles never see dirt 99% of the time. Most people have four seater cars or SUV's just to have one person in it 90% of the time. Many people also buy the biggest gas engine possible when a 4 banger or base engine will do.

And you're a perfect example of why consumer diesels continue to soldier on in the daily fleets. Unmolested the 4-bangers are great for dailies. They're especially popular in europe due to the cheaper fuel running costs.

Unfortunately the modern ones have so much emission equipment that reliability becomes a shit storm of random failures waiting to happen. You can delete it all, sure, but it's highly illegal.

 

[rock123]

And you're a perfect example of why consumer diesels continue to soldier on in the daily fleets. Unmolested the 4-bangers are great for dailies. They're especially popular in europe due to the cheaper fuel running costs.

Unfortunately the modern ones have so much emission equipment that reliability becomes a shit storm of random failures waiting to happen. You can delete it all, sure, but it's highly illegal.

I'm not sure they are a great option for small cars even. Even in Europe, the emission standards require EGR, SCR, and DPF systems on modern vehicles and create the major reliability issue.

I wonder if the EPA will try to eliminate the SCR requirement on new vehicles by repealing the Endangerment Finding. It doesn't make much sense for the manufacturers to jump on removing DEF systems in new diesel vehicles just for the US market, when most of the world requires it or is moving towards it while we regress.

 

[alphawolff]

I'm not sure they are a great option for small cars even. Even in Europe, the emission standards require EGR, SCR, and DPF systems on modern vehicles and create the major reliability issue.

I wonder if the EPA will try to eliminate the SCR requirement on new vehicles by repealing the Endangerment Finding. It doesn't make much sense for the manufacturers to jump on removing DEF systems in new diesel vehicles just for the US market, when most of the world requires it or is moving towards it while we regress.

Eh the issue is if the EPA repeals their mandates it's a hard sell for OEMs to jump on that bandwagon when those very same restrictions could be re-implemented in only a few years with the next administration.

But my goodness, if they released a totally emissions deleted cummins pickup they'd probably be one of the most valuable pickups on the market, especially with resale value down the road.

 

[Twisted10]

The issue I have is, you should be allowed to delete if you want. And, the limp mode bs is just ridiculous. Seems we are headed in the right direction, for now.

Oh and the right tune will limit the coal roaling, my 22 cummins barely smokes...

 

[ALeeL]

And you're a perfect example of why consumer diesels continue to soldier on in the daily fleets. Unmolested the 4-bangers are great for dailies. They're especially popular in europe due to the cheaper fuel running costs.

Unfortunately the modern ones have so much emission equipment that reliability becomes a shit storm of random failures waiting to happen. You can delete it all, sure, but it's highly illegal.

Deleting is illegal, but I do illegal shit on the daily. I consistently drive 5 mph over. When I was under 21, I drank alcohol every weekend. I have jay walked a time or two. I have done a few illegal substances back in the day. I have been drunk in public before. I downloaded "free" songs on Limewire back in the 90's. I do occasionally look down at my phone while driving. I had a few V8 cars back when I was young that probably broke noise laws.

I am an avid blinker user so you can't get me on that although I see that law broken all the time along with not passing in the left lane and putting HID or LED lights in a halogen housing blinding oncoming traffic.

Needles to say, I can't throw stones just because some one else sins differently than I do.

 

[digger2]

Eh the issue is if the EPA repeals their mandates it's a hard sell for OEMs to jump on that bandwagon when those very same restrictions could be re-implemented in only a few years with the next administration.

But my goodness, if they released a totally emissions deleted cummins pickup they'd probably be one of the most valuable pickups on the market, especially with resale value down the road.

The new mandate is not to remove def systems but to stop the derate while driving. As its a software only flash it could be reversed if you go to the dealer again.

 

[James Westfall]

The amount of people that buy the biggest truck they can afford, then never use it for anything remotely close to its intended purpose, is too damn high!

This is a good point - there would be more utility in requiring a certification or license in order to purchase and operate a vehicle larger than a 1/2-ton frame pickup/SUV.

I'm not advocating for this specifically, just saying that it would be a better solution to the perceived issue at hand. A major reduction in diesel emissions without the headache and cost for those who legitimately need the vehicle.

 

[Twisted10]

Diesels should be regulated to working vehicles over a certain tonnage. Putting them in generic daily vehicles is a massive misappropriation of design function.

The amount of people that buy the biggest truck they can afford, then never use it for anything remotely close to its intended purpose, is too damn high!


Then again, turning a literal brick on wheels into a plugin hybrid to be more "economic/green" was also a questionable decision.

I rarely ever use my truck. I dont need a deleted diesel but i have the means to own one and i love them.

 

[Bayrat]

Yea I sit here reading this stuff thinking "did nobody grow up back in the days when every other truck or bus had a screaming jimmy barfing out black smoke every time it took off from a red light?"

Those things were noisy and stinky and polluted the air like crazy. Nothing like getting crop dusted by the city bus.

Why on EARTH would anyone want to go back to that?

Yes, I grew up then. Oh how I miss that smell and the great running engines that didn't leave us stranded on the shoulder.

 

[scorpionsix]

The amount of people that buy the biggest truck they can afford, then never use it for anything remotely close to its intended purpose, is too damn high!

Just had this conversation last week. Used to be if you saw a truck, odds were it was being used to do truck/work things (bringing home a big screen TV from BestBuy doesn't count).

 

[ALeeL]

I rarely ever use my truck. I dont need a deleted diesel but i have the means to own one and i love them.

No, you can want a big house, big V8, big gun, big boat, big truck, big d***, etc.... but when it comes to a diesel, you have to need one to own one. Them's the rules... according to people who don't own diesels.

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