Mods please delete

[Remorseless]

Not saying inflation doesn't suck, but that's just not true. My 2021 Rubi XR stickered for $61k and it was far from fully loaded.

Even the tail end of the JK runs were getting expensive

Sponsored

 

[John VonJeep]

I got all the way to page 21, but I just couldn’t anymore. This award goes to everyone in this thread.

 

[Ratbert]

I was expecting the ‘Hurricane’ Inline Six with auto.

Why would you expect something that won't fit?

 

[John VonJeep]

$52,500 in today dollars. Which is almost exactly what a 2-door Rubicon with V6, auto and dual tops costs today

 

[TheRaven]

That super pretentious Jeff Bridges gif (Tron?) was a much more amusing post, so I'm gonna pretend you didn't change them out after you thought better of it. Because, let's be real, in the future and in the present, you are not Jeff Bridges or the Tron mastermind, you're this grumpy old guy

LOL you're not remotely qualified to judge my relation to what you term as "the future". What you are referring to when you use the term is not far off from what the gentlemen in the gif you posted would consider "the future".

 

[Remorseless]

LOL you're not remotely qualified to judge my relation to what you term as "the future". What you are referring to when you use the term is not far off from what the gentlemen in the gif you posted would consider "the future".

Pray tell, what do I consider the future?

 

[TheRaven]

Pray tell, what do I consider the future?

For instance - the 2.0l. You consider a turbo 4 cylinder the future.

Gas engines aren't the future.

 

[Remorseless]

For instance - the 2.0l. You consider a turbo 4 cylinder the future.

Gas engines aren't the future.

Is that your final answer?

 

[NWJeepr]

For instance - the 2.0l. You consider a turbo 4 cylinder the future.

Gas engines aren't the future.

I'm not familiar with the beef between you two, but I agree with this statement. The ICE has reached peak power and efficiency, its golden hour. Enjoy it while it lasts because the future will almost certainly not use ICE for passenger vehicles.

 

[autotragic]

Is that your final answer?

Haven't you heard we're all going to be unburdened by what has been.

 

[TheRaven]

The ICE has reached peak power and efficiency, its golden hour. Enjoy it while it lasts because the future will almost certainly not use ICE for passenger vehicles.

I don't know if I would say that ICE has gone as far as it can go. Maybe...but I don't personally think so. That said, automakers have mostly turned away from developing ICE packages so I would agree that your claim is at least true in the effective sense. The point here though is that the 4cyl turbo is not the evolution of ICE power...it's not new, it's not special, it's not the best example...it's a stop-gap solution, a temporary bridge until we are able to make real progress into what IS the future of automobile power....and it's only where it is because of government mandates. As usual, it's a pretty poor solution to the problem that was mandated solved in this case.

 

[Remorseless]

Well, Kevin @TheRaven I'll just accept that as your final answer and tell you that you're

And not the part you think I bet too - I've never said the 2.0 was the future, nor is that what I meant when I said the future is now. The future is now in that your vaunted V6 is neither the only reliable engine nor uncomplicated. Welcome to the future, where even an NA V6 is complex enough that you can't assume it's a solid choice.

As for ICE not being the future - partial credit here. ICE won't be the only thing in the future for sure, but it's going to be around for a long, long time into the future. Energy density with gasoline is going to be ahead of lithium and sodium batteries for a long time, and advancements like eFuel/synthetic fuel are going to extend the lifetime of ICE vehicles. EVs will continue to improve, but will likely not fully replace ICE.

 

[TheRaven]

The future is now in that your vaunted V6 is neither the only reliable engine nor uncomplicated.

It's not "my vaunted V6". I don't even like it. It's just the best overall option in the Jeep Wrangler JL. If FCA wasn't so ridiculous and actually made smart decisions like putting the 5.7l in the Wrangler, i'd absolutely have that...yeah the 392 is better in almost every way but the pricing for it is comedic and it's just not a smart choice for a daily driver.

As for ICE not being the future - partial credit here. ICE won't be the only thing in the future for sure, but it's going to be around for a long, long time into the future.

Absolutely, ICE will be around for a long time to come. Long enough for all of us to realize that this turbo-4-everything idea was a really bad one and to switch back to simpler and slightly larger NA motors. None of that changes the fact that ICE is absolutely not the future.

 

[Remorseless]

I'm not familiar with the beef between you two, but I agree with this statement. The ICE has reached peak power and efficiency, its golden hour. Enjoy it while it lasts because the future will almost certainly not use ICE for passenger vehicles.

Not solely ICE, but there's room yet to improve. Hell, Porsche just the other day came out with an idea for a 6 stroke ICE engine.

Porsche Has Dreamed Up a 6-Stroke Engine, Patent Documents Reveal (roadandtrack.com)

ICE will continue for a long time yet IMO, but the mix of passenger vehicles will definitely change.

As for any beef - a little story - our friend Kevin here once claimed that big changes were coming in the 2023 MY for Jeeps as he has a friend who totally, definitely showed him CAD drawings of massive frame changes for the refresh. Massive tub changes, packages with 37" tires, completely different frame. When folks doubted this, he doubled down and went after them for being unqualified and ignorant and yada yada. Changes never happened, he claims what he said was misconstrued.

This pattern continues across the majority of debates he gets into. @jeepingib, @yokramer, @Zandcwhite, @Ratbert, and myself have taken no small pleasure in poking him about these near endless flubs and calling him out on BS when he spouts it.

 

[TheRaven]

As for any beef - a little story - our friend Kevin here once claimed that big changes were coming in the 2023 MY for Jeeps as he has a friend who totally, definitely showed him CAD drawings of massive frame changes for the refresh. Massive tub changes, packages with 37" tires, completely different frame. When folks doubted this, he doubled down and went after them for being unqualified and ignorant and yada yada. Changes never happened, he claims what he said was misconstrued.

Yeah this is not true. It's a complete caricature of what I said, and what I ACTUALLY said is absolutely true. A couple of kid's disagreement with what constitutes a "refresh" does not change that fact. Hell you and your sidekick didn't even know what a torque converter did until I had to explain it to you.

Sponsored