Manual Transmission - Issues shifting into 1st & Reverse (Compilation thread)

[melendez69]

This is what mine look like from the outside of the slave cylinder on the bell housing… to my surprise. It was actually somewhat dry when I removed the slave cylinder, And then I pulled back the boot to reveal the weeping seal..

I’ll give a check if I can get the time in a couple days. I’d have to remove my heavy-ass MC skid lego set.

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[Actman]

Sorry but I had to take time away from my computer to spend time with family. After quickly reviewing the last few pages, I see a lot of speculation and misinformation, so let me chime in. To give some perspective, we have sold several hundred ACT JL/JT clutches with many happy customers. We do our best to address any issues that come up. Keep in mind, I don't have the time to adequately do customer service on the forum threads. Please PM or email me for best results, as I don't closely monitor forum threads.

Clutches are really simple in how they operate. Let's review... The release bearing pushes on the diaphragm spring which causes the pressure plate casting to lift from the clutch disc. As the clutch disc floats between the casting and the flywheel on fairly loose splines the transmission synchronizers will speed up or slow down the clutch disc to allow shifting to the next gear. Keep in mind, an aftermarket single 10.5 or 11" spring center clutch disc has increased inertia so shifting is expected to be slower.

There are a few things that can interfere with that operation. As long as the hydraulics are installed correctly, and engagement point is fairly normal, you can pretty much rule out the hydraulics. Any air in the lines or leaks will lower the engagement point, and you will notice it.

If it feels normal, but shifting into first and reverse is difficult, the disc is most likely not freeing from the mating surfaces. That could be due to the disc not wanting to slide freely on the input shaft from worn/rusty input shaft splines, lack of lubrication, or damaged disc splines (from improper installation). It could also be from a damaged or defective pressure plate not lifting completely or a bent clutch disc.

If the engagement point is too low and not allowing for full disengagement, there are a few reasons for this but not because of the design of the hydraulics. 1) The most common, especially on the JL/JT is air in the hydraulics. These vehicles are especially difficult to bleed the clutch hydraulics. 2) The slave cylinder was not stabbed into the arm correctly or the arm wasn't installed installed (possibly but not likely). 3) The fingers of the pressure plate diaphragm may not be even which wastes travel when operating the clutch. There are a few causes for this, but the bottom line is the transmission will need to come out and the parts inspected.

Addressing other recent comments:

I am confident the strength of the stock plastic hydraulics are up to the task. Similar designs are used on other applications having significantly more loading. JK hydraulics use a slightly different hydraulic ratio, but essentially the same construction.

Yes, the CF hydraulics will work with the ACT clutch, but you must use both master and slave (adapted JK parts). You cannot just swap to the CF slave (internal or external). This will increase throw, raise engagement/disengagement point and increase pedal effort. I cannot say it will help with shifting issue, since it depends on the cause.

 

[notthenewguy]

@notthenewguy posted about this in one of the threads I believe. If I remember correctly it was not successful. I've read this works in the case of all the gears being off (As in 3rd is where 1st should be).

I could be completely wrong about this but I'd assume if when the Jeep is off you can easily shift through all the correct gears then your cables and bracket alignment are fine. If the shifting is only difficult when the engine is on it would either be hydraulics are leaking OR there is something preventing the pressure plate from fully releasing. Someone here can correct me if that assumption is wrong.

@Gator Overland was able to fix his issues by replacing the slave and bleeding the system. So seems like his issue was leaky hydraulics.

yeah I did this A LOT and every time I did shifting would improve marginally but return to being rough and inconsistent. Right now my cables are adjusted but not how this PDF illustrates. If I adjust my cables the way it is detailed in these PDFs I cannot get into first at all. I have to move the stick slightly to the right and then lock the neutral gate in order to get into 1st. No idea why that is but maybe something at the transmission where the cables attach is out of alignment or broken.

 

[SadRobot]

yeah I did this A LOT and every time I did shifting would improve marginally but return to being rough and inconsistent. Right now my cables are adjusted but not how this PDF illustrates. If I adjust my cables the way it is detailed in these PDFs I cannot get into first at all. I have to move the stick slightly to the right and then lock the neutral gate in order to get into 1st. No idea why that is but maybe something at the transmission where the cables attach is out of alignment or broken.

All I can say is I hope mine if fixable. I know the JL manual transmission has all sorts of problems but the idea of buying an automatic depresses the hell out of me.

 

[AVGeek99]

All I can say is I hope mine if fixable. I know the JL manual transmission has all sorts of problems but the idea of buying an automatic depresses the hell out of me.

At this point, the only things holding me back from buying a new JLUR with an automatic are interest rates and all the aftermarket sh!t I've put on mine. If I had the time and interest rates were lower I'd just buy a new one, transfer all the after market stuff from my current to the new one and replace everything I take off my current jeep with what I take off the new one.

The more I type, the more I'm talking myself into this option. I better stop.

Hapy New Year all!!

 

[SadRobot]

At this point, the only things holding me back from buying a new JLUR with an automatic are interest rates and all the aftermarket sh!t I've put on mine. If I had the time and interest rates were lower I'd just buy a new one, transfer all the after market stuff from my current to the new one and replace everything I take off my current jeep with what I take off the new one.

The more I type, the more I'm talking myself into this option. I better stop.

Hapy New Year all!!

I'm at the same spot. I've put so much money and time into mine the idea of giving it up and going to a stock auto just doesn't sound great to me. Also who is in the market for a used 2dr manual sport with roll down windows and a no-fob key? That's a hard sell I think to anyone who isn't me.

 

[notthenewguy]

I'm at the same spot. I've put so much money and time into mine the idea of giving it up and going to a stock auto just doesn't sound great to me. Also who is in the market for a used 2dr manual sport with roll down windows and a no-fob key? That's a hard sell I think to anyone who isn't me.

I had considered the same. If I do decide to get rid of mine I’d likely go to a TJ/LJ

 

[fspalt]

I am searching for a replacement vehicle if I can’t get mine sorted. The only thing that would convince me to go auto on the wrangler would be a deal on used 392 that I could get for around $55k. Otherwise if going auto I’ll be looking at the cheap version of the new 4Runner and then searching for a proper manual transmission sports car. Tremec makes some of the best manuals.

At this point, the only things holding me back from buying a new JLUR with an automatic are interest rates and all the aftermarket sh!t I've put on mine. If I had the time and interest rates were lower I'd just buy a new one, transfer all the after market stuff from my current to the new one and replace everything I take off my current jeep with what I take off the new one.

The more I type, the more I'm talking myself into this option. I better stop.

Hapy New Year all!!

 

[SadRobot]

I had considered the same. If I do decide to get rid of mine I’d likely go to a TJ/LJ

I've been looking at a couple of TJs online just for fun. If I won the lottery I'd buy a Blue Pearl TJ

and a tan 1983 CJ7 Renegade

 

[notthenewguy]

I've been looking at a couple of TJs online just for fun. If I won the lottery I'd buy a Blue Pearl TJ

and a tan 1983 CJ7 Renegade

CJ7 would also be considered but then I’d need a second car as my daily. TJ/LJ I could daily and “trust” on longer trips with my family.

 

[fspalt]

So I did this overnight and I got no noticeable change. Wasn’t really surprised as the fluid level in the reservoir was full and I couldn’t find any noticeable leaks prior.

@fspalt @SadRobot @azwjowner I found a video showing a “dry vac”‘method from early 2000’s recognized by Ford and GM, but is common for bleeding concentric (internal) slaves,
video link:
but come to find out now per @SadRobot posting of the centerforce method for their master/slave kit, it’s exactly the same process. I will have a full YouTube “How To” hopefully by the weekend on Gator Overland channel. I tried to upload a short clip of it, but it’s too long. Here’s a link to the Facebook post where I explained what I did.
https://www.facebook.com/share/p/19Za3pL8ir/?mibextid=wwXIfr
Steps:
-make sure your clutch side of fluid in reservoir is full
-find a rubber stopper (make a hole if needed)
-plug in your vac connector
-pull 10-15” of vacuum and let it sit (I left overnite 8hrs)
-Check for improvements and repeat as needed

 

[Gator Overland]

So I did this overnight and I got no noticeable change. Wasn’t really surprised as the fluid level in the reservoir was full and I couldn’t find any noticeable leaks prior.

Thanks for your update, sorry to hear it’s still an issue. If you have a firm and silent operation of the pedal and no sign of oil weeping or leaking at master or slave cylinder , then it’s likely that your hydraulic system is not the issue.
mine went from squeaky woosh with operation to silent and full firm pedal, so I’m thinking I still had air in the system even after bleeding at the SC.. if the sticking 1st/reveres appears again It likely proves the clutch is not fully disengaging the flywheel because of contaminates (oil, grease, rust) not allowing free movement on the input shaft, which will require removing the trans to assess..

 

[SadRobot]

So I did this overnight and I got no noticeable change. Wasn’t really surprised as the fluid level in the reservoir was full and I couldn’t find any noticeable leaks prior.

Well it was worth a shot I suppose. At least it lets you rule something out.

 

[Duece McCracken]

Well it was worth a shot I suppose. At least it lets you rule something out.

Thats the bellows on my brake master above the pedals. I wiped it down, not really sure if its actually leaking. No other evidence.


My clutch hydraulics had no current leaks. I've swapped over to the CF JK hydraulics. Still on the vacuum bleed phase.

 

[Duece McCracken]

Well, drove into work on it. Clutch feels good. Shifts are much better. 1st and R are no issues at all. 5th, Im not sure. Its not what it was, but I need more time on it.

Obviously I need more time on it. I have 40 miles on this setup right now.

I'm pretty sure I could have bled the stock hydraulics and gotten the same results.

The reservior is sectioned, you have to fill past the max line to get fluid to the clutch pickup. Just a FYI

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